Le retour de la manifestation sur la Brutalité Policière

[MTLskyline]

Well I'll only answer to this one. If you can promote Sun News in threads, isn'it fair that I have the right to post political threads against the "Harper administration"? I think you can attest to that also.

 

Of course, fair is fair (right wingers believe in equality of opportunity!). I wasn't complaining. I was just pointing out his ignorance. I'm all for freedom of speech.

 

Tu nous parles de tes fantasmes avec Bush et Harper à tous les jours et il n'y a pas de problèmes pourtant ... cherches-tu a provoquer et te rendre intéressant ou es-tu un peu "lent" d'esprit?

 

C'est par manque d'intelligence ou par fermeture d'esprit que tu attribus un mérite à Bush pour avoir inspirer le "Printemps arabe"?

 

C'est par faiblesse d'esprit ou par une démonstration d'ignorance que tu définis aussi facilement les idéologies de dictatures?

 

I don't blame you for such an ill-informed statement. Someone who can't think for themselves cannot be blamed for simply being a messenger (and you are certainly allowed to be merely a messenger if you choose!). It would seem as though you are repeating something someone else told you. What I'm wondering is: who has that much power over you?

 

Here's a tip (sorry its of the non-monetary variety!). You should never accept every single thing you're told as fact. You should not let people tell you what to think. Formulating your own opinions has many, many advantages.

 

Here is a "fun game" you can play! Suppose that a CEGEP professor of yours says that Bush invaded Iraq to "steal its oil" (pretty typical scenario, eh?). You should ask him to prove his point with evidence! (easy!) If a protester friend of yours says that "the police" are guilty of "brutality", why not ask him to prove it? That doesn't sound too hard does it? And half the time, you'll get a blank stare and nervous twitching! Sounds like fun! Let me know how it goes!

[MTLskyline]

I think the actions of the police during the Toronto G20 meeting was not acceptable. You had half the area that was unpoliced and people rioting, looting, destroying property (e.g. the "black bloc" or whatever the hell it was) and in such a situation the police should move in and put a stop to that immediately. Then on the other side you seemingly had people walking around in an annoying but peaceful way getting their heads bashed in (e.g. the Nobody incident). The worst of both worlds!

Thanks for being respectful. Libertarians are always a pleasure to debate with. (you can't say they are told what to think! Libertarians are the ultimate independents)

 

I believe the policing problem at the G20 all began the first day. The police let the rioters take over too much territory. They were far too nice. The second day, after the city and the country were embarrassed, the police felt as though they had something to prove. They were a little rough with the non-violent protesters, but something had to be done. They couldn't let things get out of hand like on the first day.

 

Montreal's police are kind of becoming well known as experts in dealing with leftist revolts. I believe that the sections of Toronto patrolled by Montreal police were the most orderly.

 

In general currently I think police forces have really become not interested in going up against any kind of mob that is violent, but seem to enjoy abusing individuals where there is little risk. Probably many of us have even had that kind of "power-trip" or "zélé" that has been screwing with us on the side of the road or when we are walking around late at night, especially if you're black.

Of course that sort of thing goes on, I don't condone it. However, I am all for frequent patrols in problem areas.

 

Also ridiculous was that time the Laval police burst into that Parasiris guy's house in Brossard at some ungodly hour in the morning. It was his right to fire at the presumed intruders. He should not be made a criminal over this incident (although should face justice for whatever reason it was the cops showed up there for).

 

But then you get a situation like what happened in Caledonia, Ont recently, where some poor family was being criminally harassed for months, the father had to stay awake 24/7 with a shotgun in the living room, being forced to stay inside their house / not allowed to enter or leave the area by these "protestors" and that is just unbelievable and completely unacceptable. With something like that going on, if the police were not interested in moving in because of some kind of Oka-fear, I'd send in the army instead.

Yeah, sometimes the police are gutless in dealing with real criminals. I'm 100% with you on that. I have much more respect for the army than for the police. This is exactly when an iron fist is needed.

 

As for Qaddafi, the brief ray of hope seems to have been quashed due to the inaction of the West. I have always been relatively favorable to American foreign policy but here they dropped the ball big time, and consequently the Bin Laden of the 70's and '80's remains in power. The freaking Arab League was supporting an intervention. The Arab League! And the EU. Of course there was the not insignificant risk similar to Iran, throwing one bad guy out and getting a 10 times worse bad guy in return. But Qaddafi? Already he was 10 times worse, how much more of an asshole can you get? Military assistance to topple that regime last week would have been fast, cheap and easy and not even remotely close to Iraq levels. One question is why Europe is gung-ho to take him out, but only as much as telling the Americans to do it. Europe has plenty army and is right on the other side of the water and took over Libya the first time. The EU likes to pretend it is a counterbalance to the United States and it basically is, with a comparable population, economic might and military complex. Put down the Gauloises and baguettes and pick up your friggin FN!

 

Can't we just give war a chance?

The far left has pretty much destroyed most any chance of US military intervention in the near future. Obama is eager to prove that he's different than Bush, although he's picking the wrong time for it! (I'm sure that ol' W. would have taken care of Gaddafi by now!)

[JFrosty]

Left! Right! Left! Right! Left! Right! Left! Right!

[mtlurb]

Parfait. Jouons tout de suite. Commençons simplement :

 

Donne moi la preuve que Bush a inspiré le "Printemps arabe".

[MTLskyline]

Parfait. Jouons tout de suite. Commençons simplement :

 

Donne moi la preuve que Bush a inspiré le "Printemps arabe".

 

With pleasure! Happy reading!

 

http://www.hoover.org/news/daily-report/63561

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2011/02/02/the_vindication_of_the_freedom_agenda/

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/261278/baghdad-benghazi-charles-krauthammer

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2011/01/28/vindication-for-bush%E2%80%99s-freedom-agenda/

[Cyrus]

The far left has pretty much destroyed most any chance of US military intervention in the near future. Obama is eager to prove that he's different than Bush, although he's picking the wrong time for it! (I'm sure that ol' W. would have taken care of Gaddafi by now!)

 

I love how Reagan just sent some cruise missiles to Gaddafi's palace in the '80's after Gaddafi bombed a nightclub filled with American soldiers, and everyone in the world thought it was great except Gaddafi of course

[mtlurb]

With pleasure! Happy reading!

 

http://www.hoover.org/news/daily-report/63561

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2011/02/02/the_vindication_of_the_freedom_agenda/

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/261278/baghdad-benghazi-charles-krauthammer

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2011/01/28/vindication-for-bush%E2%80%99s-freedom-agenda/

 

C'est drôle. Moi, je lis plus ceci :

 

http://milbrima.blogspot.com/2011/03/la-revolution-tunisienne-origines-et.html

http://www.ledevoir.com/international/actualites-internationales/315745/on-avait-besoin-d-une-etincelle-pour-que-tout-explose

http://www.courrierinternational.com/article/2011/01/15/la-revolution-du-jasmin-a-fleuri-dans-tout-le-pays

http://www.courrierinternational.com/article/2011/02/10/les-lecons-de-l-histoire-espagnole

http://www.jeuneafrique.com/Article/ARTJAJA2613p008-009.xml0/actualite-afriquetunisie-les-vrais-chiffres-du-malaise-des-jeunes.html

 

Ce dernier te plaira! Il va loin? Oui, évidemment. Mais plus loin que de donner le mérite à Bush? Pas vraiment! :

http://www.tekiano.com/ness/n-c/5-0-3180/wikileaks-a-lorigine-de-la-revolution-en-tunisie-.html

 

Donc, qui dit vrai?

Évidemment, tu dénigreras les sources des textes dont j'ai posté les liens. C'est trop facile et ça te plaira d'en profiter.

 

Tu es surement au courant qu'il est facile de trouver des textes disant tout ce que l'on veut.

Tu sais, il est aussi possible de trouver des vingtaines de textes affirmant que l'Homme est derrière les changements climatiques, que Bush n'a pas envahi l'Irak par bonne foi pour le pauvre peuple irakien, que le 11 septembre ne vient pas d'Al-Qaïda, que la droite populiste américaine fait des petits au Canada...et que nous devrions s'en préoccuper puisque la gauche populiste à tendance à être plus pacifique que la droite populiste ...

 

 

De plus, cette discussion ne mènera nulle part. Tu es borné et le restera.

Bush est derrière la révolution tunisienne? Quel ange. Donnez-lui le Prix Nobel pour son intervention en Irak qui aura inspiré le monde!

 

Sincèrement, continue à le penser si ça te rend heureux.

Tant que cette pensée représentative du maillon faible de la droite est dans la tête d'un simple forumeur d'un forum montréalais sur le développement urbain, je ne m'inquiète pas d'une "montée" de l'ignorance et de l'abrutissement général de la société.

 

Tu restes un cas encore isolé.

 

(C'est mon dernier message sur le sujet. Une fuite, un manque d'arguments ou simplement une écoeurantite aiguë de la redondance? Interprète-le comme tu veux.)

[MTLskyline]

C'est drôle. Moi, je lis plus ceci :

 

http://milbrima.blogspot.com/2011/03/la-revolution-tunisienne-origines-et.html

http://www.ledevoir.com/international/actualites-internationales/315745/on-avait-besoin-d-une-etincelle-pour-que-tout-explose

http://www.courrierinternational.com/article/2011/01/15/la-revolution-du-jasmin-a-fleuri-dans-tout-le-pays

http://www.courrierinternational.com/article/2011/02/10/les-lecons-de-l-histoire-espagnole

http://www.jeuneafrique.com/Article/ARTJAJA2613p008-009.xml0/actualite-afriquetunisie-les-vrais-chiffres-du-malaise-des-jeunes.html

 

Ce dernier te plaira! Il va loin? Oui, évidemment. Mais plus loin que de donner le mérite à Bush? Pas vraiment! :

http://www.tekiano.com/ness/n-c/5-0-3180/wikileaks-a-lorigine-de-la-revolution-en-tunisie-.html

 

Donc, qui dit vrai?

Évidemment, tu dénigreras les sources des textes dont j'ai posté les liens. C'est trop facile et ça te plaira d'en profiter.

Aside from your sources being kind of weak, none of them disputes the claim that George W. Bush's liberation of Iraq ultimately served as inspiration for the democracy movement in the greater Middle East. There are many contributing factors as to why it occurred (particularly why.. now?), but the Bush doctrine is one of those factors (as evidenced in my articles).

 

Tu es surement au courant qu'il est facile de trouver des textes disant tout ce que l'on veut.

Tu sais, il est aussi possible de trouver des vingtaines de textes affirmant que l'Homme est derrière les changements climatiques, que Bush n'a pas envahi l'Irak par bonne foi pour le pauvre peuple irakien, que le 11 septembre ne vient pas d'Al-Qaïda, que la droite populiste américaine fait des petits au Canada...et que nous devrions s'en préoccuper puisque la gauche populiste à tendance à être plus pacifique que la droite populiste ...

Of course there are publications that publish lies, you just referred to a bunch of them (I would kindly remind you not to fall into their trap!) You have to look at who the source is. Usually someone who claims that humans are responsible for "global warming" isn't a very credible source (they are often career protesters). Someone who claims Bush invaded Iraq under some sinister plot is even more of a joke. Claims about 9/11 being an "inside job" are extremely insulting to the victims of the tragedy. And it is not the populist right wingers in Canada who are rioting, vandalizing and preventing people from speaking (remember what this thread is about??).

 

De plus, cette discussion ne mènera nulle part. Tu es borné et le restera.

Bush est derrière la révolution tunisienne? Quel ange. Donnez-lui le Prix Nobel pour son intervention en Irak qui aura inspiré le monde!

Obama got a Nobel Prize for a lot less, did he not?

 

Sincèrement, continue à le penser si ça te rend heureux.

Tant que cette pensée représentative du maillon faible de la droite est dans la tête d'un simple forumeur d'un forum montréalais sur le développement urbain, je ne m'inquiète pas d'une "montée" de l'ignorance et de l'abrutissement général de la société.

 

Tu restes un cas encore isolé.

In Montreal, I may very well be one-of-a-kind. Although it is a point of view that needs to be present. I (and a handful of others) are preventing the political debate on this forum from shifting too far to the left. After all, most developers (particularly of office buildings) lean to the right as they are businessmen (the head of Canderel donates to the ADQ, for instance). Some of them might market some projects as "green", but a dollar is a dollar at the end of the day.

 

If you ever travel outside Montreal (or outside Quebec) you will soon realize that Canada is filled with people who think just like me. The Conservative Party would have a very strong majority if it weren't for Quebec, and Montreal in particular. You're surrounded on all sides by right-wingers.

 

(C'est mon dernier message sur le sujet. Une fuite, un manque d'arguments ou simplement une écoeurantite aiguë de la redondance? Interprète-le comme tu veux.)

I kind of see it as all of the above. Yeah, cut and run!

[Cyrus]

Yasser Arafat got a Nobel Peace Prize for starting a war!

 

I think Bush should have taken that Irakioil, after all those protesters and people screaming about oil, only to have Iraq's government sell contracts to supermajors at really terrible costs, worse than what they would just pay in say Texas or Alberta and with the not-insignificant risk of getting killed (!), maybe the Versailles-tactic of making them pay reparations (in oil) to the US would help balance America's budget deficit and do all kinds of good things

Modifié 19 mars 2011 par Cyrus

[monctezuma]

The far left has pretty much destroyed most any chance of US military intervention in the near future. Obama is eager to prove that he's different than Bush, although he's picking the wrong time for it! (I'm sure that ol' W. would have taken care of Gaddafi by now!)

 

Pourquoi c'est Gaddafi en anglais et Kadhafi en français ?