Institut Fraser : Y a-t-il trop d'immigrants?

[MTLskyline]

Euh MTLskyline, comme d'autres essaient de te faire comprendre, tu fais pas mal de généralisations sur les pays moins riches.

There is truth to every generalization and stereotype that exists. Otherwise, these generalizations/stereotypes would not exist.

 

Les gens du Honduras, du Mexique ou d'Haïti viennent pas avec une "mentalité violente":confused:;

I'm not saying that all your average people are coming in with that mentality. But certain ones still do, as exemplified by the Villanueva brothers.

si certains se lancent dans la criminalité il y a plein de différentes raisons... comme pour tout le monde les mauvaises influences peuvent venir des parents, des amis, des médias, etc.

Of course there are plenty of reasons not linked to country of origin that I have not mentioned. But, my point here is that you don't see a whole lot of (3rd generation or more) Canadians in street gangs, etc. The majority are either 1st or second generation. You can't deny that the criminality rate of these groups is higher than the average.

 

Normalement les immigrants de 2e génération sont tout à fait Canadiens (sans être nécessairement patriotiques) liés de près ou de loin à un autre pays; tu peux pas simplement les considérer "étrangers indésirables" si ils commettent un crime.

I don't know if I consider people who feel more attachment to their country of origin than to their country of birth to be Canadians or not. But this goes for a most groups that have come since the 1950s. It seems takes a few generations for them to fully integrate. However, the point is that 2nd generation kids should feel privileged to be born in Canada. Why should some feel the need to commit crime at a higher rate than the overall population norm? In France this is a huge problem (and fortunately it's not a big one here yet)

[JFrosty]

There is truth to every generalization and stereotype that exists. Otherwise, these generalizations/stereotypes would not exist.

 

Alors que les gens de la droite sont arriérés socialement, c'est un peu vrai?

[GoMontreal]

Someone who considers themselves say Colombian before Canadian/Quebecois, is only a displaced Colombian. You can consider yourself a Canadian of Colombian origin, but to consider yourself Colombian (and say root for Colombia against Canada in some soccer game), means that you don't really belong here.

 

Wow, that is so ridiculous! So, in your perfect world, a person comes in to Canada and never looks back. It doesn't matter what country you are from, you're not allowed to rout for their soccer team or be proud of your background. That's insane!

 

I think your argument would apply to, say, wars. You come to Canada and you promise to stand by it's core values and stand behind it when at war with any country or else get out. But to bring this to the level of a soccer game confuses the issue.

[MTLskyline]

Wow, that is so ridiculous! So, in your perfect world, a person comes in to Canada and never looks back. It doesn't matter what country you are from, you're not allowed to rout for their soccer team or be proud of your background. That's insane!

 

I think your argument would apply to, say, wars. You come to Canada and you promise to stand by it's core values and stand behind it when at war with any country or else get out. But to bring this to the level of a soccer game confuses the issue.

 

Sure they can go ahead and root for their country of origin's soccer team when they play other countries. But their favourite team should be Canada, and they should root for Canada's soccer team over that of their home country.

 

Am I going to root for Ireland, Scotland or England to beat Canada? No. I'm Canadian. But would I root for them to beat other teams, yes I would.

[MTLskyline]

Alors que les gens de la droite sont arriérés socialement, c'est un peu vrai?

 

Just as much as the leftists are lazy whiners.

[JFrosty]

Sure they can go ahead and root for their country of origin's soccer team when they play other countries. But their favourite team should be Canada, and they should root for Canada's soccer team over that of their home country.

 

Am I going to root for Ireland, Scotland or England to beat Canada? No. I'm Canadian. But would I root for them to beat other teams, yes I would.

 

C'est complètement ridicule. T'es dans une situation de patriotisme aveugle. C'est pas parce que tu habites au Canada que tu te dois d'être derrière l'équipe canadienne.

 

C'est le libre choix de voter et d'être la partisan de qui on veut. Ton zèle de patriotisme exagéré peut rien faire contre ça.

[MTLskyline]

C'est complètement ridicule. T'es dans une situation de patriotisme aveugle. C'est pas parce que tu habites au Canada que tu te dois d'être derrière l'équipe canadienne.

 

C'est le libre choix de voter et d'être la partisan de qui on veut. Ton zèle de patriotisme exagéré peut rien faire contre ça.

 

Why the hell wouldn't an immigrant support Canada's team if they are indeed Canadian? (aside from being a separatist of course) Once they come here, their loyalty to another country should come second to their loyalty to Canada.

 

If I was to dare hang up a Union Jack, a American flag or even a Canadian flag in front of my house, it would likely get torn down and burned or stomped on. However, if I had a flag, say of Algeria in front of my house, there's nothing wrong with that and anyone who says otherwise is an xenophobic bigot!

[JFrosty]

Why the hell wouldn't an immigrant support Canada's team if they are indeed Canadian? (aside from being a separatist of course) Once they come here, their loyalty to another country should come second to their loyalty to Canada.

 

Pas juste un immigrant, n'importe qui!

 

Ça m'arrive de prendre pour une équipe qui est pas celle du Canada ou du Québec!

 

J'ai pas de loyauté à ce point-là envers mon pays.

 

I've got the right to chose whoever I want to root for, thank you.

[GoMontreal]

Why the hell wouldn't an immigrant support Canada's team if they are indeed Canadian? (aside from being a separatist of course) Once they come here, their loyalty to another country should come second to their loyalty to Canada.

 

A preference for a sports team to win over another has absolutely nothing to do with politics, patriotism, etc. With your point of view, I guess someone from Ottawa now living in Montreal is not allowed to rout for Senators when playing the Canadiens or others. Or worse, your ideal player composition for the Canadiens would be 80% Quebecois, and 20% of the various other ethnicities that compose Montreal. Oh, but those numbers are for Quebec, so what would be the territory for Canadiens players? What about a player from Hawkesbury, Ontario, would he play for Montreal or Ottawa?

 

I'm sorry but your stance on this just doesn't make sense and is unrealistic.

[MTLskyline]

Pas juste un immigrant, n'importe qui!

 

Ça m'arrive de prendre pour une équipe qui est pas celle du Canada ou du Québec!

 

J'ai pas de loyauté à ce point-là envers mon pays.

 

I've got the right to chose whoever I want to root for, thank you.

I find your lack of loyalty to your country to be quite unfortunate. Perhaps you should think about living elsewhere.

 

A preference for a sports team to win over another has absolutely nothing to do with politics, patriotism, etc. With your point of view, I guess someone from Ottawa now living in Montreal is not allowed to rout for Senators when playing the Canadiens or others. Or worse, your ideal player composition for the Canadiens would be 80% Quebecois, and 20% of the various other ethnicities that compose Montreal. Oh, but those numbers are for Quebec, so what would be the territory for Canadiens players? What about a player from Hawkesbury, Ontario, would he play for Montreal or Ottawa?

 

I'm sorry but your stance on this just doesn't make sense and is unrealistic.

Ottawa or Montreal are not countries. That argument doesn't work. Canadian is Canadian. Having said that, I would prefer to embrace the local team wherever I moved. I'd even go to Leafs games if I lived in Toronto because I would be a Torontonian then.

 

Although, I do prefer that the Habs should be formed of at least of a majority of local players, like in the old days, when hockey was actually entertaining, and the Habs actually could win a Stanley Cup.