ouest-de-lîle REM - Prolongement vers Dorval

[danny12345]

2 hours ago, nephersir7 said:

Parce que ça ne faisait pas partie du mandat que le gouvernement avait donné à la CDPQ Infra.  

Leur mandat était rive-sud et YUL, hors ils sont allé bien au-delà avec l'incorporation de deux-montagne et le west island.  Bref ils se seraient autorisés à ajouter Dorval si A) c'était rentable et B) ce n'était pas une trop grosse contrainte (tunnel simple..) et C) ça n'entrait pas en conflit avec leur zone d'exclusivité et D) ça n'ajoutait pas trop de délais (décision, permis, construction..).  Une ou plusieurs de ces raisons doit expliquer pourquoi ça n'a pas été inclut.

[nephersir7]

27 minutes ago, danny12345 said:

Leur mandat était rive-sud et YUL, or ils sont allé bien au-delà avec l'incorporation de deux-montagne et le west island. Bref ils se seraient autorisés à ajouter Dorval si A) c'était rentable 

En fait, le West Island faisait partie du mandat initial, mais la décision d'aller jusqu'à Baie d'Urfé/Ste-Anne était plus politique qu'autre chose, car ce n'était pas rentable:

Dans les coulisses, La Presse a pu apprendre que la CDPQ, qui dit être à l'abri des considérations politiques, avait dû mettre de l'eau dans son vin et consentir à prolonger le futur réseau loin vers l'ouest, jusqu'à Sainte-Anne-de-Bellevue, même si l'achalandage ne le justifiait pas. Dans les semaines précédant la première annonce, en avril 2016, la CDPQ avait modifié son tracé : le REM irait finalement bien plus loin dans l'Ouest-de-l'Île

Tout le monde a compris dans ces discussions que comme la CDPQ attend un rendement d'environ 8 % sur ce projet, le prolongement dans des zones moins rentables serait compensé, sous une forme ou une autre, par des contributions gouvernementales.

https://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/grand-montreal/201804/13/01-5160876-rem-il-etait-une-fois-dans-louest.php

Si les ministres libéraux avaient exigé un prolongement jusqu'à Dorval plutôt (ou en plus) que Sainte-Anne, il n'y a aucun doute que ça aurait été inclus dans le projet.

[Chuck-A]

Kramberger: Is a second Dorval REM station warranted?

Time is ticking for a potential REM station connecting Trudeau airport to the existing commuter train and bus stations along Highway 20.

ALBERT KRAMBERGER, MONTREAL GAZETTE

Updated: July 24, 2019

Federal Transport Minister Marc Garneau is seen standing between Montreal executive committee chairperson Benoît Dorais, left, and Philippe Rainville, president and director-general of ADM Aéroports de Montreal, at ground-breaking ceremony for construction of the REM station at Trudeau airport in Dorval on July 19, 2019. JOHN MAHONEY / MONTREAL GAZETTE

While the idea of tunnelling another 700 metres south for a second Réseau express métropolitain (REM) station in Dorval (on top of the already planned airport stop) doesn’t seem like a major construction obstacle, it remains far from being a reality despite the announcement of a $2-million feasibility study.

The study, announced by Federal Transport Minister Marc Garneau last Friday, will look at the possibility of extending the future REM from the airport toward the existing Via and Exo train stops and STM bus depot on Highway 20 near the Dorval Circle.

Dorval Mayor Edgar Rouleau, who has spent the past few years lobbying for a REM station to be erected near the Via and Exo stations, said the $2-million study is a positive step forward but its announcement falls short of a commitment from either the federal or provincial governments to fund another Dorval station to link to the airport from Highway 20.

“It’s not great news. It would have been great news if they would have done (the study) two and half years ago, following the mémoire (the city of Dorval) deposited in September 2016. Action should have been taken then,” Rouleau said. “It’s a bit disappointing they’re only reacting now.”

With tunnelling work set to start shortly for the airport station, the mayor said the study must be completed by the end of August. Otherwise, it might be too late for work to start on the second Dorval REM station.

Cost — estimated ballpark figure of more than $200 million — could be a factor impeding the addition of another station in Dorval as part of the REM project. The feasibility study will provide a more accurate cost estimate for another station, Rouleau said.

Alternative options such as a special bus shuttle or a hypothetical tramway to cover the 700-metre gap from the Via station or the STM depot to the future airport station won’t be as efficient or practical as having another REM station located near Highway 20, Rouleau noted. Commuters on the Exo line coming from the Off-Island might prefer disembarking in Dorval and jumping on the REM network if it brings them nearer to their planned downtown destination. A REM station located near Highway 20 will serve Dorval residents as well as people in western Lachine and people in neighbouring cities who live closer to Highway 20 than the 40, Rouleau said.

Rouleau reiterated that his proposal has the backing of the Montreal agglomeration, Via Rail, Aéroports de Montréal (ADM), the Montreal Chamber of Commerce as well as the Caisse de dépôt, which is spearheading the REM project.

As it stands, the future REM is to serve West Islanders with four stations along Highway 40, from Pointe-Claire to Ste-Anne-de-Bellevue. Two stations will also be located in Pierrefonds as part of the Deux-Montagnes leg, plus a station will serve Trudeau airport, for which tunnelling work will commence in the coming weeks.

The Vaudreuil–Hudson Exo commuter line, which runs just north of Highway 20, is to remain in place once the light-rail REM network begins operation. Long term, however, some have expressed concerns that after the REM has been operating for several years, there could be economic or political pressure to shelve the Vaudreuil–Hudson line depending on demand and costs.

The REM stations in the West Island are to be completed in 2023, barring unforeseen delays. Hopefully, this will include the second Dorval REM stop near Highway 20.

https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/west-island-gazette/kramberger-is-a-second-dorval-rem-station-warranted

[mk.ndrsn]

6 hours ago, Chuck-A said:

Commuters on the Exo line coming from the Off-Island might prefer disembarking in Dorval and jumping on the REM network if it brings them nearer to their planned downtown destination.

Les stations Vendôme et LL font déjà ça efficacement, à moins qu"il considère le nord de l'île (Saint-Laurent, TMR, CDN) comme "downtown"... ce que certaines personnes en banlieue font... 

[Fortier]

Il y a 4 heures, mk.ndrsn a dit :

Les stations Vendôme et LL font déjà ça efficacement, à moins qu"il considère le nord de l'île (Saint-Laurent, TMR, CDN) comme "downtown"... ce que certaines personnes en banlieue font... 

Pas si tu veux aller à Édouard-Montpetit, McGill ou Griffintown..

[mk.ndrsn]

10 hours ago, Fortier said:

Pas si tu veux aller à Édouard-Montpetit

Je ne considère pas CDN comme downtown.

[Chuck-A]

Dorval mayor says he'll drive his car downtown without REM extension

Dorval Mayor Edgar Rouleau remains cautiously optimistic the REM will eventually connect to the Dorval train station

JOHN MEAGHER, MONTREAL GAZETTE  |  Updated: July 31, 2019

Dorval Mayor Edgar Rouleau remains cautiously optimistic the Réseau express métropolitain (REM) will eventually hook up with the Dorval train station, just south of Trudeau airport.

However, the Dorval mayor also expressed some frustration that a short 700-metre extension, which he calls a “no-brainer,” has yet to be officially endorsed by the provincial and federal governments.

“Everybody says it should be done so that is good news,” Rouleau said. “But it becomes a question of who is going to pay.”

Rouleau was in attendance for a groundbreaking ceremony to mark the official launch of construction of a REM station at Trudeau airport.

Federal Transport Minister Marc Garneau is seen standing between Montreal executive committee chairperson Benoît Dorais, left, and Philippe Rainville, president and director-general of ADM Aéroports de Montreal, at ground-breaking ceremony for construction of the REM station at Trudeau airport in Dorval on July 19, 2019. JOHN MAHONEY/ MONTREAL GAZETTE

“I thank all the journalists that were there because, honestly, if there were 10 questions, nine of them related to the 700-metre (extension),” he said

While Federal Transport Minister Marc Garneau reiterated that the Canadian government was preparing a $2 million feasibility study to extend the REM to the Dorval train station, Rouleau said time is of the essence.

“We’ve been asking for that study from Transport Canada for a while,” Rouleau said. “Of course, it’s not ready. Look, it was news but not big news. It’s not something I’m going to make a party (about), but at least it’s an acknowledgement by the federal and provincial governments that this is seriously (something) they have to look at.”

Rouleau has previously stated that leaving out a REM link at the train station, which serves as a transportation hub for both VIA Rail trains and EXO commuter trains on the Vaudreuil-Hudson line, is a glaring oversight. “I don’t see this as an addition to the REM, but more as a correction to the original concept,” Rouleau said in May.

“People, in general, knows it’s a no brainer. You’re doing the airport station. It’s good, it’s done. Now, what are we going to do for the citizens?”

“Everyone who spoke at the press conference it was always about tourists, tourists, tourists. And they forgot about the 100,000 people that live around Dorval, the west of Lachine, in Pointe-Claire. You can go as far as Baie-D’Urfé and Beaconsfield. They live near Highway 20.”

Rouleau said local commuters would benefit by an extension of the REM.

MONTREAL, QUE.: MAY 16, 2019 — Dorval mayor Edgar Rouleau, right, accompanied by Francois Pepin of Trajectoire, a public transit users advocacy group, at a press conference in Dorval, west of Montreal Thursday May 16, 2019 at which time he urged the parties responsible to extend the REM from Trudeau Airport to the Dorval train station transit hub. (John Mahoney / MONTREAL GAZETTE) ORG XMIT: 62528 – 4492 JOHN MAHONEY /MONTREAL GAZETTE

Under the current REM network, Rouleau said many West Island commuters will have to jump through several hoops to access the REM station at the airport. He said it will require commuters “getting off the STM bus, going to the intermodal hub, then take another bus to the airport, go down 35 metres to the REM station… I mean, forget it.

“For me, if I have to do all this, I’m just going to take my car downtown.

“And they will have spent billions of dollars on the Turcot Interchange and it will be blocked with traffic.”

jmeagher@postmedia.com

https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/west-island-gazette/dorval-mayor-says-hell-drive-his-car-downtown-without-rem-extension

[amaist]

Mayor Rouleau makes it sound like it's just 700 meters of track through farmland. REM planners had to limit the network because of costs. Those 700 meters would be one the costliest parts of REM. Even the tunnel to the airport might not be so expensive per meter because it's pretty straight forward.

With the Dorval interchange and both major Canadian railroads being there, the logistics of building another set of rail tracks and a station are very complex. Especially, if you don't want to close the whole thing to traffic for a year. We had enough disruption with the Dorval interchange construction over all these years. And the adventure with the YUL terminal rebuild is going to start very soon.

It's obvious that it would be very good to connect REM to the Dorval train station. But it will take time and money.

[danny12345]

24 minutes ago, amaist said:

It's obvious that it would be very good to connect REM to the Dorval train station. But it will take time and money.

and may compromise performance and capacity at YUL, since the tunnel will be single track.  

Providing service at YUL was a key requirement for the REM project.  Providing local service at Dorval city/rail station is not.  Thus the later shall not compromise the former.

[nephersir7]

51 minutes ago, danny12345 said:

and may compromise performance and capacity at YUL, since the tunnel will be single track.  

Ça ne compromettrait rien. La station YUL a deux voies.

51 minutes ago, danny12345 said:

Providing service at YUL was a key requirement for the REM project.  Providing local service at Dorval city/rail station is not. Thus the later shall not compromise the former.

Ces besoins ont été définis arbitrairement par le gouvernement. Si les besoins ont été mal définis, ce n'est pas une mauvaise chose de les mettre à jour.