Hilton Garden Inn (400 Sherbrooke Ouest) - 37 étages - 63 M$ (2009)

[Cataclaw]

Hmm not much change since the last pix i posted, but it seems like the 3rd floor is going to start soon

[yarabundi]

Thats counter intuitive.

 

The Quebec economy needs Canada. How does creating additional borders help Quebec based multinational companies, that do extensive business in the ROC (Air Canada, Bombardier, BCE, Quebecor, NATBank)?

It cannot be worst. Montréal's economy is already penalised by staying in the canadian confederation. Our situation is worsening every day and probably will not get better anytime soon. We'll be witnessing our downfall without having the courage to take the only logical course of action. The ROC doesn't take us seriously because we are cowards. Nobody respects cowards. I don't.

How long before we take our destiny in our own hand ? We'll wait until we're down to the ground ?

You know as much as I do that separatist's threat won't go away any time soon and that bill 101 is here to stay. Therefore, our chance to find our proper place in Canada is close to none.

[Habsfan]

Quebec separating imposes big big consequences for Quebec based businesses, that do extensive business with the ROC and the USA. Think of all those jobs once at Air Canada, BCE, CGI, Bombardier, Power Corp. (all of its holding are in Ontario), Quebecor, Banque Nationale...

 

Your arguments are the same re-hashed arguments we've been hearing for the past 3 decades, that don't hold up.

 

Why would Québec stop trading with Canada and the USA once it were to become independant? Why? It's in the best interest of all parties to make the transition as smooth as possible. Québec would be part of NAFTA, to say otherwise is just childish.

 

and our beloved Bernard Landry says that immigrants are not part of the Quebec culture.

 

Instead of only reading the Gazette, you should pick up one of the other 3 daily papers in Montreal. Had you read another paper, you would have realized that the Gazette is full of shit. They just like stirring the pot.

 

Landry DID NOT say that immigrants are not part of Québec Culture. Landry said that Québec was not Multicutural...in the sense that he considers that a person from Haiti who's been living here for a while, and someone like himself have the same culture, the Québecois culture.

 

Separating from Canada, creating additional borders.. means you forget that we live in a global economy, where borders are nothing but nominal anyway.

 

Funny you should say that. There have never been as many countries on the face of the earth as today. New countries are born every decade!

 

And Like I said earlier, there's absolutely no reason why Québec won'T be part of NAFTA, the UN, NATO etc.

 

If anything, our laws and economic policies are counter-intuitive to wealth creation. The threat of separation doesnt help either.

 

If Quebec reduced the size of the bureaucracy, reduced personal income taxes for the middle/upper class, invested on infrastructure (roads/highways), we would have a prosperous economy.

 

Now here I can agree with you! our taxes are too high, we have too many social programs which many Québeckers end up abusing. There are too many people in this province who don't pay any taxes(40% of them) and our roads are comparable to that of 3rd world countries.

[MTLskyline]

Quebec's separation could potentially work economically (I'll admit), but not with the PQ at the helm.

 

The PQ likely has its mind set on turning Quebec into even more of a socialist state. We all know that they pretty much sleep with the unions, and that is definitely not going to benefit the economy. They also believe in expanding the public sector, and handing out more welfare checks. During this time they will likely raise taxes. These facts alone could really hurt the "new country".

 

For economically right of center sovreigntists I think the ADQ makes much more sense. They believe in cutting taxes, increasing employment, trimming down the public sector, etc. If they were not "autonomist" and opposed to increasing immigration, I would likely have voted for them.

[yarabundi]

So, in the end : others nations in the world took thier responsabilities and declared their independance. Québec is as able as any others - if not more since we've been practicing some kind of self-government in the canadian constitution. We not only have the potential, we have the know-how.

I agree that in its actual situation, the PQ is far from being the best fitted political party to do it. I doubt the ADQ have the capacity to do it. The "Messiah" will eventually come to the PQ and will reshape it from the ground up - or another Daniel Johnson, leader of the Liberal could do it, tired of negociating uselessly with Ottawa.

The rest has been said brilliantly by Habsfan.

[Habsfan]

The PQ likely has its mind set on turning Quebec into even more of a socialist state. We all know that they pretty much sleep with the unions, and that is definitely not going to benefit the economy. They also believe in expanding the public sector, and handing out more welfare checks. During this time they will likely raise taxes. These facts alone could really hurt the "new country".

 

Very good points! I would say you'Re entirely right, but there's hope on the hoirizon. Pauline Marois has stated on a few occasions that the new goals of the P.Q. will be to increase the wealth of every quebecker in the province(economically speaking). Let's just hope that it actually works out, if they are ever elected.

 

For economically right of center sovreigntists I think the ADQ makes much more sense. They believe in cutting taxes, increasing employment, trimming down the public sector, etc. If they were not "autonomist" and opposed to increasing immigration, I would likely have voted for them.

Once again I agree with you on that, especially the last part of your paragraph.

[WestAust]

Now here I can agree with you! our taxes are too high, we have too many social programs which many Québeckers end up abusing. There are too many people in this province who don't pay any taxes(40% of them) and our roads are comparable to that of 3rd world countries.

 

To me that's an argument solid enough not to be in favor of independance, i'd rather stay in Canada than create a 3rd world country with socialist programs we can't afford

[Cataclaw]

Lol, this thread has been jacked into a separation debate. Alright, i was going to abstain, but...

 

So, in the end : others nations in the world took thier responsabilities and declared their independance. Québec is as able as any others

 

We already are a country : it's called Canada. It's as much ours as it is Saskachewan's.

 

The bottom line with the separation debate is this : There are two facets to the issue: an economic one and an emotional one. The economic one is objective in nature, and the emotional one is naturally very subjective.

 

Although one would think it is quite objective, the economic side of the coin is quite frankly moot. There are arguments on both sides that basically cancel each other out. There are so many variables to consider when it comes to separating and creating a new country that it is impossible to accurately predict if Quebec will be more prosperous or not. There are reasons to believe separation would hurt Quebec, even in the long run, and there are reasons to believe separation would help it. As much as separatists can spit out arguments like "we'd only have one tax to pay"... and so on, I and other federalists like me can spit out an equal number counter-arguments.

 

The other point is the emotional one : the subjective one. This one is strictly a matter of opinion. A matter of personal choice. Some people say Quebec has a unique history and therefore deserves it's own country. Others say Quebec's history is intertwinned with that of the rest of Canada's. Some say speaking french is grounds for a separate country. Others say billingualism is one of Canada's greatest strengths. There is no right or wrong answer. Only opinions.

 

I'm tired of people trying to twist their federalist or separatist views into objective irrefutable ones. They aren't, no matter how much you can think they are. This whole debate is a matter of opinion, nothing more.

 

I will restate this again, for all of you out there that claim "things will only get better when we separate" or "things will only get better when the separatist threat dies" --- you don't know that. No one does. There are too many variables, too many uncertainties. No one knows what will happen if Quebec separates. If you act like you do, you're being plain ignorant and presumptious.

 

In the Quebec separation debate, there is no right or wrong answer. Only opinion.

 

And for the record, my opinion is that separation is grossly unnecessary for several reasons, among them: 1. Quebec's unique culture is not threatened (in fact, it grew and continues to prosper as Quebec being a province). 2. The language isn't threatened either -- (in fact french is on the rise) 3. Quebec has sufficient power to pass appropriate legislation to ensure #1 and #2 continue. If anything, I agree that more liberties should definitely be distributed to the provinces, but without compromising Canada itself.

 

/sick and tired of this debate

//malek should gather up the related posts and split them and put them in general conversation

[SupermanMTL]

WOW!

 

Bravo tout le monde, vous venez de scraper le thread du plus haut projet de construction à Montréal.

 

Le sujet est le 400 Sherbrooke Ouest! :confused:

[Habsfan]

yarabundi and habsfan,

 

I want you to know that my arguments are meant with respect. I respect your opinion and right to seek a sovreign nation. I believe in my arguments, and this is a subject that I am passsionate about.

 

I love Montreal, and I would do anything to see this city prosper. I also work for Air Canada in network planning, so it really sobering to see market demand in Toronto be 3 times higher.

 

I just wish this would all end, skyscrapers going up, and wealth creation putting Montreal at the forefront of the North American economy... Quebec needs to assert itself, and make this happen

 

All the best

 

It's good to see that we can still discuss politics while remaining polite and respectful of others opinions.

 

I also love this city and want to see it prosper, i just believe that we can achieve this by other means.

 

but enough of politics. this thread is supposed to be about 400 Sherbrooke Ouest, let's get back to it!