Expos de Montréal

[Maisonneuve]

9 hours ago, mtlurb said:

100%... quand il dit qu'il peut pas trouver 2-3 milliards pour ce projet... j'ai beaucoup de misère a croire ça.

I am hopeful about a return of baseball to Montreal, but under the right conditions. Initially, I thought Bronfman and the group started this project well, but along the way they made three mistakes:

1)The two-city strategy was never going to work. I don't care how many business or media people thought that it was "a good idea" or "innovative." It was never going to work because fans in neither city would accept that. The two city-idea, and MLB's initial interest in the idea, seemed to me like a ploy to get something out of somebody, to convince someone of something that wasn't there, or to raise the specter of some threat. Basically, it served as both carrot and stick for Tampa, Montreal, and any current MLB city struggling to maintain themselves in their marketplace. Was it a ploy to slowly move the team from Tampa to Montreal full-time? Was it a ploy to get a higher expansion fee out of Nashville, North Carolina, San Antonio, Vegas or wherever MLB plans to go next? Was its demised announced yesterday a concession made between the league and the players association during the lockout? We may never know...

2) In Canada, never ask for government funds to build professional sports facilities. Never. Don't even think it out loud. If you do, at least half the population will be against you and if you fail people will rejoice (go see the comments under the story regarding MLB's decision in the Journal de Montréal...people are gleeful this failed and received no government funding). The best thing to do is build stadiums and arenas yourself or find private investors to do it. It doesn't matter if "that's how they do it in the States." Canadian politicians are elected by Canadian voters, so what "they do in the States" is irrelevant. Build the thing yourself, find private investors, but take it even further than that. Make a circle on a map around the stadium site with a 1-km radius. In that circle, invest in schools, colleges, universities, hospitals, community centres, libraries, parks, pools, skating rinks, CHSLDs, etc.. because you want to prove with real money that you are a good neighbour in the community. Then, turn around and say this to the city and the province: "I built the stadium, paid for the infrastructure around the stadium, invested in community institutions and facilities in a 1 km radius of that stadium. I've done what no other business that has come to Montreal and Quebec has done. In return, I don't want to be taxed for 25 years." And then die on that hill, because you did the leg work, you put your own money in, so you can tell your critics to STFU and tell the government don't tax me for 25 years. Whoever doesn't like that deal, just ask them when was the last time they dropped a billion+ in the city and stare them dead in the eyes. When you use your own money, you get the bragging rights, and you can literally tell anyone to STFU. In Canada, if you ask for government funds, the government and the half the public will tell you to STFU. 

3) In a market the size of Montreal, in terms of growing a sports/entertainment brand, you need to take the time to think outside of the North American box. The Groupe baseball Montréal has Stephen Bronfman, Pierre Boivin, Alan Bouchard, Eric Boyko, Stéphane Crétier, and Mitch Garber. That's impressive, but it's not enough. A bunch of rich guys from Montreal is not enough to sway a big American sports/entertainment league like MLB. In my opinion, the group were moving about 5-8 years too fast. There's a lot of things happening in the city development wise, and in the tech sector, that's transforming Montreal every day. Montreal today, and Montreal with all the projects in proposed and going up completed, plus the REM, will be a very different city. And that future city will have a stronger economy than the one we have today. So even though the value of an MLB expansion fee or club will surely increase if Bronfman and Co. wait, they should have patiently built an international business strategy which would eventually include an MLB team when the time is right. I don't know what contacts those men have internationally, but let's say one of them, a couple of them, or a few of them, had longstanding established relationships with businesses/investors in countries outside of North America who are either already big players in sports/media/entertainment or who are interested in creating a global brand or holding company. The Montreal business people could go to their international contacts and propose the creation of a global sports and entertainment brand, which would include many assets either already owned or that could be bought, anywhere in the world: a Bollywood film studio, a German Bundesliga team, arenas in Europe, a cricket team in Australia, esports, music venues in Berlin and Madrid, a KHL team, a car racing competition in Africa, sports networks in Asia, etc... Think Anschutz Entertainment Group (AEG) or Red Bull GmbH or something global of that caliber, but with elements of the Quebec entertainment sector, including the Groupe baseball Montréal, as part of that global behemoth. Now that takes years to build, but they do it patiently as part of this larger, global vision, that includes Montreal but goes beyond Montreal. When things are right in Montreal, they go to the larger international group that they helped to create with a proposal to get a foothold in the North American sports market with an MLB team in Montreal. Their partners, co-owning all these assets globally with them, find the idea of owning something in North American irresistible, so now the whole group is in on it. Bronfman and Co. go down to New York to see MLB and present them with a plan. Now suddenly, they're not just a bunch rich dudes from Quebec anymore, they're a local ownership group that's part of a global entertainment brand, capable of paying the expansion fee, building a stadium with a retractable roof, and creating a TV deal all by themselves without breaking a sweat. And even if MLB still says no, at least Bronfman and Co are still part of a global entertainment brand which can still do many things for Montreal in terms of sports and entertainment. What I just wrote takes vision, diligence, patience, innovation, and a broad view of what is possible.  Bronfman and his group should have taken a step back from the idea of MLB in Montreal, considered what type of legacy they want to build for Montreal writ-large in terms of sports/entertainment, and then network with international contacts to create a global sports/entertainment brand, and include a Montreal MLB club in that universe. Maybe a Montreal NBA team could be in that universe? Maybe some international festival yet to be created could be in that universe? Maybe selling Quebec films/TV/music beyond Quebec could be in that universe, etc... But if they don't want to go international nor don't have those sorts of global contacts...MLSE is the closest thing to AEG that we have in Canada, and they don't own an MLB team. Maybe that should be Bronfman's plan B, because at least their Canadian and you know they can never move the team to Toronto.

Modifié 21 janvier 2022 par Maisonneuve

[mtlurb]

Il y a 11 heures, Né entre les rapides a dit :

 

On aurait avantage à regrouper sur un fil unique des discussions présentement éparpillées sur au moins deux fils: celui-ci "Expos Coming Back?" dans Actualité et "Stade des Expos" dans Lieux de...

Autrement, nous sommes condamnés à répéter les mêmes arguments dans le désordre, au gré des interventions faites sous des angles différents.

Si ton commentaire a 10 likes, je vais le faire. Merci de la proposition.

[eastender85]

 

Tiré de Montreal Baseball project facebook

A MESSAGE FROM WARREN CROMARTIE:
''I remain firmly convinced a better opportunity will arise and it will be Montréal's unmistakable time to shine, marking the definitive return of our Expos. Nos Amours. You should be, too.''

Like many of you, I was disappointed to learn that the plan to bring baseball back to Montréal through a split-season arrangement with Tampa will not move forward. An immense amount of work went into this endeavour with the intention to build a unique experience, and to innovate every aspect of what the baseball experience could be, and for generations to come.

What began as a simple idea a decade ago, that Montréal was truly a Major League city, became the passion of many and opened our minds to possibilities we never imagined before. New leaders emerged, and people pushed themselves to new limits to get where we are today. It is certainly a setback, but far from the end of this dream of ours. Far from it.

As Stephen Bronfman mentioned today, it's perhaps time to take a break or a step back. While the focus has been on the split season arrangement with Tampa, it pushed the idea of baseball returning to Montréal to its furthest point, and removed countless lingering doubts about how it could happen. 

In my heart, I believe this progress will only make the next remaining steps even easier. 

I remain firmly convinced a better opportunity will arise and it will be Montréal's unmistakable time to shine, marking the definitive return of our Expos. Nos Amours. You should be, too.

Montréal is a Major League city.

[Rocco]

Y'a pas kekun qui avait déjà dit "on se crache dans les mains, et on r'commence"

[KOOL]

il y a 35 minutes, Rocco a dit :

Y'a pas kekun qui avait déjà dit "on se crache dans les mains, et on r'commence"

Oui et ça faisait déjà la deuxième fois qu'il se crachait dans les mains avant de recommencer mais il n'est jamais arrivé à ses fins.

[Brick]

C'est ça la question

[Né entre les rapides]

Il y a 2 heures, mtlurb a dit :

Si ton commentaire a 10 likes, je vais le faire. Merci de la proposition.

Merci.  En même temps, nous aurions besoin d'un fil portant sur le redéveloppement des terrains situés sur le côté sud du Bassin Peel, là où un nouveau stade avait été envisagé.  Le report à beaucoup plus tard d'un possible retour des Expos nous force à envisager d'autres usages pour le site -- ce qui ne saurait attendre trop longtemps.  

[KOOL]

il y a 24 minutes, Né entre les rapides a dit :

Merci.  En même temps, nous aurions besoin d'un fil portant sur le redéveloppement des terrains situés sur le côté sud du Bassin Peel, là où un nouveau stade avait été envisagé.

Il y a déjà un fil sur le bassin Peel donc Go avec la fusion des deux topics « Expos » (plus que 3 votes nécessaires).

 

[Rocco]

il y a 35 minutes, Né entre les rapides a dit :

Merci.  En même temps, nous aurions besoin d'un fil portant sur le redéveloppement des terrains situés sur le côté sud du Bassin Peel, là où un nouveau stade avait été envisagé.  Le report à beaucoup plus tard d'un possible retour des Expos nous force à envisager d'autres usages pour le site -- ce qui ne saurait attendre trop longtemps.  

Copy/Paste

[peekay]

10 hours ago, Maisonneuve said:

I am hopeful about a return of baseball to Montreal, but under the right conditions. Initially, I thought Bronfman and the group started this project well, but along the way they made three mistakes:

1)The two-city strategy was never going to work. I don't care how many business or media people thought that it was "a good idea" or "innovative." It was never going to work because fans in neither city would accept that. The two city-idea, and MLB's initial interest in the idea, seemed to me like a ploy to get something out of somebody, to convince someone of something that wasn't there, or to raise the specter of some threat. Basically, it served as both carrot and stick for Tampa, Montreal, and any current MLB city struggling to maintain themselves in their marketplace. Was it a ploy to slowly move the team from Tampa to Montreal full-time? Was it a ploy to get a higher expansion fee out of Nashville, North Carolina, San Antonio, Vegas or wherever MLB plans to go next? Was its demised announced yesterday a concession made between the league and the players association during the lockout? We may never know...

2) In Canada, never ask for government funds to build professional sports facilities. Never. Don't even think it out loud. If you do, at least half the population will be against you and if you fail people will rejoice (go see the comments under the story regarding MLB's decision in the Journal de Montréal...people are gleeful this failed and received no government funding). The best thing to do is build stadiums and arenas yourself or find private investors to do it. It doesn't matter if "that's how they do it in the States." Canadian politicians are elected by Canadian voters, so what "they do in the States" is irrelevant. Build the thing yourself, find private investors, but take it even further than that. Make a circle on a map around the stadium site with a 1-km radius. In that circle, invest in schools, colleges, universities, hospitals, community centres, libraries, parks, pools, skating rinks, CHSLDs, etc.. because you want to prove with real money that you are a good neighbour in the community. Then, turn around and say this to the city and the province: "I built the stadium, paid for the infrastructure around the stadium, invested in community institutions and facilities in a 1 km radius of that stadium. I've done what no other business that has come to Montreal and Quebec has done. In return, I don't want to be taxed for 25 years." And then die on that hill, because you did the leg work, you put your own money in, so you can tell your critics to STFU and tell the government don't tax me for 25 years. Whoever doesn't like that deal, just ask them when was the last time they dropped a billion+ in the city and stare them dead in the eyes. When you use your own money, you get the bragging rights, and you can literally tell anyone to STFU. In Canada, if you ask for government funds, the government and the half the public will tell you to STFU. 

3) In a market the size of Montreal, in terms of growing a sports/entertainment brand, you need to take the time to think outside of the North American box. The Groupe baseball Montréal has Stephen Bronfman, Pierre Boivin, Alan Bouchard, Eric Boyko, Stéphane Crétier, and Mitch Garber. That's impressive, but it's not enough. A bunch of rich guys from Montreal is not enough to sway a big American sports/entertainment league like MLB. In my opinion, the group were moving about 5-8 years too fast. There's a lot of things happening in the city development wise, and in the tech sector, that's transforming Montreal every day. Montreal today, and Montreal with all the projects in proposed and going up completed, plus the REM, will be a very different city. And that future city will have a stronger economy than the one we have today. So even though the value of an MLB expansion fee or club will surely increase if Bronfman and Co. wait, they should have patiently built an international business strategy which would eventually include an MLB team when the time is right. I don't know what contacts those men have internationally, but let's say one of them, a couple of them, or a few of them, had longstanding established relationships with businesses/investors in countries outside of North America who are either already big players in sports/media/entertainment or who are interested in creating a global brand or holding company. The Montreal business people could go to their international contacts and propose the creation of a global sports and entertainment brand, which would include many assets either already owned or that could be bought, anywhere in the world: a Bollywood film studio, a German Bundesliga team, arenas in Europe, a cricket team in Australia, esports, music venues in Berlin and Madrid, a KHL team, a car racing competition in Africa, sports networks in Asia, etc... Think Anschutz Entertainment Group (AEG) or Red Bull GmbH or something global of that caliber, but with elements of the Quebec entertainment sector, including the Groupe baseball Montréal, as part of that global behemoth. Now that takes years to build, but they do it patiently as part of this larger, global vision, that includes Montreal but goes beyond Montreal. When things are right in Montreal, they go to the larger international group that they helped to create with a proposal to get a foothold in the North American sports market with an MLB team in Montreal. Their partners, co-owning all these assets globally with them, find the idea of owning something in North American irresistible, so now the whole group is in on it. Bronfman and Co. go down to New York to see MLB and present them with a plan. Now suddenly, they're not just a bunch rich dudes from Quebec anymore, they're a local ownership group that's part of a global entertainment brand, capable of paying the expansion fee, building a stadium with a retractable roof, and creating a TV deal all by themselves without breaking a sweat. And even if MLB still says no, at least Bronfman and Co are still part of a global entertainment brand which can still do many things for Montreal in terms of sports and entertainment. What I just wrote takes vision, diligence, patience, innovation, and a broad view of what is possible.  Bronfman and his group should have taken a step back from the idea of MLB in Montreal, considered what type of legacy they want to build for Montreal writ-large in terms of sports/entertainment, and then network with international contacts to create a global sports/entertainment brand, and include a Montreal MLB club in that universe. Maybe a Montreal NBA team could be in that universe? Maybe some international festival yet to be created could be in that universe? Maybe selling Quebec films/TV/music beyond Quebec could be in that universe, etc... But if they don't want to go international nor don't have those sorts of global contacts...MLSE is the closest thing to AEG that we have in Canada, and they don't own an MLB team. Maybe that should be Bronfman's plan B, because at least their Canadian and you know they can never move the team to Toronto.

Excellent points. I hated his stance on number 1. Why tf did he do such a nonsensical thing!? I am really glad it isn't going through. I feel nothing for the guy. I feel worse for Cromartie and Alou.