ville-marie Place de la Cité Internationale, phase 2 (2007)

[FrAgZ]

Selon vous est-ce que ce rendu est le finale ?

[peekay]

Build this piece of shit in Ottawa where it belongs. WTF...

[Habsfan]

Build this piece of shit in Ottawa where it belongs. WTF...

 

Nice, I liked that one! (the comment, not the tower)

[Rusty]

I count 20 floors... is it official 16 floors? as I count 20 floors

[Russell]

people relax...the lower height is a function of many components including:

 

1) this tower is being built to LEED platinum and is going to cost a fortune which other tenants will likely not want to pay

2) alcan only needs 250,000 SF and does not want an inefficient 10,000 SF floor plate to artificially gain height, and are not prepared to share (as before) their amenitie and, lobby, as well as building security issues

3) westcliff has the right to build it to whatever height they want and make it single-tenant if that is their economic preference. they also know that other tenants may not be willing to pay an above market rental rate and in consideration they have excess density for another sister building, will build this as phase 2.

 

keep in mind that the great majority of the square is single-tenant and low-rise (quebecor, TD, Power Corp, CDP) so this building fits in nicely but IMO would be a major issue if it was on rene-levesque.

 

the project is basically a go, which also means the transformation of the former sherbrooke property. these are exciting times for downtown real estate and a great many of you shit on the development and ignore the basic realities that the developer is facing in order to land their anchor tenancy and build this at a reasonable return.

[Cataclaw]

I respect your opinion Russell, but that argument just doesn't fly.

 

If we extrapolate the logic and push it to the extreme, we could say that nobody has the right to complain if a 1-storey strip mall is built on the 1300 René-Lévesque parking lot, because it's the developer's right, etc.

Yes, the developer has the right to build a shitty building, but that doesn't mean we have to approve of it.

 

We have a right to be critical. This project, while certainly "better than nothing", nevertheless amounts to an under-utilization of prime vacant downtown land.

Modifié 8 décembre 2011 par Cataclaw

[GDS]

people relax...the lower height is a function of many components including:

 

3) westcliff has the right to build it to whatever height they want and make it single-tenant if that is their economic preference. they also know that other tenants may not be willing to pay an above market rental rate and in consideration they have excess density for another sister building, will build this as phase 2.

 

Actually, as shown, this shitbox does not respect the current (or future) zoning restrictions as to minimum height and minimum occupancy. Granted though, just like with the Magil project a few blocks further, it will be rubber stamped through city council despite being completely inappropriate. As shown, the building seems to have a too big a footprint to allow for an additional taller phase. The original PCI2 did have two buildings, the 31 storey tower and a 10 storey addition. More importantly, as we all know, given the rate of development in Montreal, even if an additional phase is part of the proposal, it will not be built in a timely manner. As others have mentioned, with the multitude of lots zoned 120M max, it is retarded to waste a 200M lot, they should have simply went with any of the other land owner/developers (SITQ, FTQ, SIDEV etc..). Even Westcliff owns the lot next to the Bay that would have been suitable for such a building.

[Cataclaw]

GDS my friend, for once we are in agreement!

[Russell]

GDS and Cataclaw, you miss the point and your extrapolation of strip centres obviously goes a little far, we are talking about a +/- $100 million development project.

 

This development is tenant driven with an accomodating developer. alcan could not give a shit about montreal's urban plan, they want a taj mahal style single-tenant property and clearly this is one of the few places they would want to locate themsleves. to develop an office tower and actually build to 200 meters, the developer would need to find a minimum 400,000 SF tenant to be the anchor (not rio tinto alcan) and the last one left the downtown core for nuns island because it was deemed too pricey, rogers stayed at place bonaventure on the cheap, and the next one is building their own building on rene-levesque. we could be waiting another 15 years, i think tremblay would like to see a crane on this site before he finally takes an exit.

 

a prime office site is not denoted by its potential height, but by the tenant's that choose to situate themselves there, and adding rio tinto alcan to this square certainly improves on a very high prestige level. i think everyone in the commercial real estate community (and political sphere) would embrace this building going up beside Altoria at the same time, perhaps this would entice a major global corporation to consider MTL as a location for a new HQ, or stop the bleeding of our existing corporate base.

 

if the architecture/urban planning world does not appreciate it...focus on the condo market because that is where height will be attained, the office market is in a totally different reality.

[djsteph]

Je vais dans la même ligne de pensé que vous... design intéressant qui se démarque des autres tours autour, mais pour la hauteur... fail!

 

Peut-être qu'en enlevant la tempête de neige de la maquette, et en mettant un beau temps ensoleillé... ca aiderait à passer? lol