POUBELLE - (Projets - Projects)

[MTLskyline]

Tu pourrais le transférer dans "vision"

 

+1

[Cataclaw]

Bonjour,

 

Vu le fait que la politique provinciale ici c'est ridiculement dangereux

Pourquoi pas jaser de ce qui se passe dans le sud un peu?

 

Qui sait, peut-etre nous serons d'accord pour un fois!

 

Moi je suis un supporteur fervent de Barack Obama (comme beaucoup de la jeunese, semblerait-il... mais je tiens a souligner que mon choix n'est pas dicté par les speech et le fait qu'il est une inspiration, je ne suis pas un zombie. Je le supporte car j'approuve ce qu'il fait, ce qu'il pense, et ce qu'il pourrait faire pour le pays.)

 

Entre Clinton et McCain par contre, je prendrais toutefois Clinton.

 

McCain... est 3 générations trop vieux avec sa méthode de penser.

[Cataclaw]

Pourquoi est-ce que je vois mon post dans le sous-forum mais pas la page principale? quelque chose est bogué?

[MTLskyline]

Qui sait, peut-etre nous serons d'accord pour un fois!

I think this will be a rare situation where I disagree with you. (I agree with most of your posts on here).

 

I support John McCain. Why? He's a typical conservative. Pro-War on Terror, Pro-Israel, Pro-Free Trade. He's an intelligent guy from what I gather.

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=P99FV2DzC2o&feature=related

 

I don't like either Hillary Clinton or Barrack Obama a great deal.

 

McCain... est 3 générations trop vieux avec sa méthode de penser.

America needs a strong leader, McCain is the only one who will do an adequate job standing up to the terrorists. Thinking that America should leave Afghanistan or Iraq is dangerous. The USA was protectionist and uninvolved at the beginning of WW2 until the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour. Before 9/11 the US government didn't take Al-Qaeda threats seriously. It won't make the same mistake again.

 

Haven't we learned that its better to fight the enemy overseas then at home?

[iamthewalrus]

je suis pro Obama aussi

 

contrairement a Clinton il na pas changé son fusils d'épaule et a toujours été contre la guerre en Irak...il semble plus posé et moins sur la défensive qu'Hilary

 

j'aime également ses idées et sa donnerait un vent de fraîcheur à une Amérique coincée dans ses peurs ....

 

sans compté le fait qu'un président noir serait enfin un rôle modèle positif pour plusieurs jeunes noirs aux États-unis....ça fait longtemps qu'ils n'en ont pas eu....depuis luther king?

[Robertpuant]

McCain avec le parti républicain serait plus avantageux pour le canada en étant plus pro libre-échange. Mais les Américains veulent-ils encore 4 ou 8 ans de continuité? J'en doute... En ce sense il serait bien d'avoir un Démocrate. Mon choix s'arrête sur Obama. C'est peut-être juste des paroles qui m'ont séduis, mais au moins, c'était pas la même cassette que d'habitude.

[AlainS]

Obama, parce que les USA ont besoin d'un sérieux virage en politique étrangère pour regagner le respect perdu à travers la planète depuis le début des folies irakiennes.

 

Obama promet beaucoup et fera sans doute des erreurs en tentant de traduire la sémantique de ses discours en actions concrètes. C'est sa faiblesse.

 

Avec, Clinton, c'est l'expérience, une certaine continuité et un repositionnement graduel de la politique internationale des USA.

 

Mais je vois surtout que les deux mêmes familles détiendaient alors le pouvoir présidentiel américain pour 24 ou 28 années consécutives, soit depuis l'élection de Bush père en 1988. Je ne suis pas à l'aise avec cette idée.

 

McCain et les républicains ne sont pas ma préférence.

[Cataclaw]

America needs a strong leader, McCain is the only one who will do an adequate job standing up to the terrorists. Thinking that America should leave Afghanistan or Iraq is dangerous. The USA was protectionist and uninvolved at the beginning of WW2 until the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour. Before 9/11 the US government didn't take Al-Qaeda threats seriously. It won't make the same mistake again.

 

Haven't we learned that its better to fight the enemy overseas then at home?

 

I don't understand why the Democrats are thought by some to be weak on foreign relations and national defense. If anything, foreign relations have deteriorated substantionally under a GOP government. As for national defense, just because the Democrats aren't starting wars all the time, i don't think they're necessarily scared and weak.

 

I believe both parties would be capable of adequately defending the united states. The difference is how they would go about doing this. I'm not so sure the Republican philosophy of waging war all the time is the most ideal.

 

McCain himself, with all due respect, seems to be a little looney. Maybe his advanced age is bringing about dimentia.. frankly his views on war and foreign policy scare me to death.

 

I hope i don't sound condescending, but i'm frankly puzzled, how after 8 years of hell under George W. Bush, anyone could be supporting the Republican party this time around.

 

Maybe you could shed some light on this? You've spoken about national defense, what other things draw you to McCain? I really want to see both sides of the coin on this issue of American presidential politics.

[MTLskyline]

I don't understand why the Democrats are thought by some to be weak on foreign relations and national defense. If anything, foreign relations have deteriorated substantionally under a GOP government. As for national defense, just because the Democrats aren't starting wars all the time, i don't think they're necessarily scared and weak.

 

I believe both parties would be capable of adequately defending the united states. The difference is how they would go about doing this. I'm not so sure the Republican philosophy of waging war all the time is the most ideal.

 

McCain himself, with all due respect, seems to be a little looney. Maybe his advanced age is bringing about dimentia.. frankly his views on war and foreign policy scare me to death.

 

I hope i don't sound condescending, but i'm frankly puzzled, how after 8 years of hell under George W. Bush, anyone could be supporting the Republican party this time around.

 

Maybe you could shed some light on this? You've spoken about national defense, what other things draw you to McCain? I really want to see both sides of the coin on this issue of American presidential politics.

 

I want to start of by saying I prefer the two democrat candidates by a long shot over anybody from the Liberals or NDP. Both Clinton and Obama are centrists.

 

The problem with the Democrats is their "laissez-faire" attitude. The party encompasses such a wide part of the political spectrum (center to socialist) that with each decision it makes, it risks offending someone. Therefore they tend to be a little too lax on foreign issues.

 

If the Democrats get into power they have plans on withdrawing American troops from Iraq immediately. This is not a good idea. Yes, admittedly, it was a mistake to invade Iraq in the first place, but it would be almost as big a mistake to leave now. The insurgency must be buried, otherwise the terrorists will gain control and make Iraq a puppet state of Al-Qaeda like Afghanistan was.

 

Despite this, I believe both Democrats are supporters of keeping troops in Afghanistan.

 

Rather than sending troops overseas to fight wars, what exactly do the Democrats propose in countering terrorism? I'm not sure negotiating will work with Bin Laden (who will blow up a "neutral" country like Sweden with just as much glee as somewhere like Texas. All non-Muslims are infidels).

 

McCain is a Vietnam War vet. He was held hostage by the Vietnamese for six years and tortured. The torture caused him not to be able to move his arms above his head, and turned his hair completely white at the age of 31. If Clinton or Obama lived through such a traumatic experience, I'm sure they'd look a little looney too. As for his approach on foreign policy: that's what his conservative base support likes. Many Americans want a President who they feel is a frontiersman, someone who is not afraid to kill the enemy himself if he has to. McCain is simply appealing to those of us who like leaders of action rather than leaders of thought.

 

What I like most about McCain is he is known for his "straight talk". He is consistent in his views and he's honest. Obama and Clinton both flip-flopped on the free trade issue.

 

His political positions: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_John_McCain

 

Some other things that draw me to McCain (aside from National Defence):

- Pro Free-trade (Both Clinton and Obama want to pull the US out of NAFTA)

- Emphasis on reducing the deficit

- Wants to lower dependence on foreign oil

- Wants to lower emissions

- Mandatory prison terms for selling illegal drugs

- Pro death penalty

- Is pro torture as long as it doesn't cause serious physical or psychological injury

 

Oh, and I wouldn't say the past eight years of George W. Bush were hell, but there have been better presidents (my personal favourite is Ronald Regan - a man largely responsible for the USSR's collapse). Most of the reasons that bad things occured in the past 8 years were out of Dubya's control:

- 9/11 (Michael Moore conspiracies are BS)

- Katrina (Yes a better job could have been done in rescuing/recovery efforts, but they weren't exactly policy decisions)

- Recession (this was the fault of the poor living beyond their means. People should never buy a house if they can't afford to pay it off...)

- Rise in oil prices (Terrorism has caused uncertainty)

[Cataclaw]

Thanks for the intelligent reply MTLSkyline.

 

Although i disagree with your positions and your views, i appreciate reading your thoughs on John McCain. I try to tell myself... if i'm going to take a position, i should always try to understand the opposing one, if only to gather a better understanding of the larger picture.

 

 

You begin with the "laissez-faire", which i must admit is true to a certain degree. However, i firmly believe Barack Obama has a different approach, and would change the dynamic somewhat. We might see less of this way of working under an Obama administration.

 

You go on about Iraq and Afghanistan. Let me make a note here that i am a member of the Canadian Forces (air force reserve - CIC) and as such i am a staunch supporter of my fellow military men/women as well as our operations in Afghanistan. I support the effort in Afghanistan. I don't support the effort in Iraq, and seeing the Americans pull out of there is a good thing in the long run. Iraq is a terrorist hell-hole because the Americans made it one. Maybe, just maybe, if they leave and the attention fades from Iraq, the terrorist component will diminish as well. Wishful thinking? Perhaps, but better wishful thinking than foolish-lie-conjured-thinking (refering to the fantome WMDs that led the USA, supposedly, to war to begin with)

 

As for countering terrorism, i think the Democrats favor a precise, tactical approach. Dealing with terror cells and specific targets on a more global basis, rather than just putting all their eggs in one Iraq basket and dealing with that. I also think they will refocus on Afghanistan, which is a good thing. Unlike Iraq, Afghanistan has a good chance of succeeding, and soon.

 

I commend McCain for his service, and i know he's a "doer" not a "thinker", but i just feel that the last 8 years of "doing" without "thinking" has been costly. I know you may not share this opinion, but... to put it frankly -- Bush has been awful. I can't blame everything on him though. Katrina was certainly not his fault (although his reaction along with FEMAs, was). Neither was 9/11. All that being said, he's halted stem cell research, engaged in a misguided war, been a thorn in the side of civil liberties, etc.

 

I recognize McCain's "straight talk" nature and i respect that. He's direct, he speaks his mind. I commend that. Unfortunately, i don't approve of what he has to say a large part of the time.

 

Some other things that draw me to McCain (aside from National Defence):

- Pro Free-trade (Both Clinton and Obama want to pull the US out of NAFTA)

- Emphasis on reducing the deficit

- Wants to lower dependence on foreign oil

- Wants to lower emissions

- Mandatory prison terms for selling illegal drugs

- Pro death penalty

- Is pro torture as long as it doesn't cause serious physical or psychological injury

 

Hoo-whee. We differ on a lot. I'm mixed on free-trade, i agree with lowering the deficit though, i want to lower dependence on foreign oil as well along with lower emissions (then again the democrats also want these 3 things), i'm good for tough laws (although prison capacity is a problem), however i'm thoroughly against the death penalty and anti-torture.

 

For the record i'm also for same sex marriage, pro-choice and for stiff gun control.

 

And yes, Reagan was a Republican president that i did very much appreciate. But senator, I served with Ronald Reagan.. i knew Ronald Reagan.. Ronald Reagan was a friend of mine. Senator, you're no Ronald Reagan.