montréal STM - Discussion générale

[Fortier]

guys, it's going up to $121 in toronto so don't complain!!

 

I don't think we should compare ourselves to Toronto in that situation...If we pay 65 and them 121, maybe it's because we do better than them... I don't know what is that buzz these days (might be caused by Charest) to always compare ourselves to losers... "Our educational system is cheaper than the american one, so let's raise it up!" Same thing for hydroelectricity... Guys, what's the problem... You don't learn to win in fighting with the weakest...

[MTLskyline]

I don't think we should compare ourselves to Toronto in that situation...If we pay 65 and them 121, maybe it's because we do better than them... I don't know what is that buzz these days (might be caused by Charest) to always compare ourselves to losers... "Our educational system is cheaper than the american one, so let's raise it up!" Same thing for hydroelectricity... Guys, what's the problem... You don't learn to win in fighting with the weakest...

 

I think he was trying to put things in perspective. No, we definitely should not have really expensive transit fares (it discourages use), but even $100 is reasonable for a system as good as ours (Toronto's price is a little high, I agree). We should not be complaining about a little $2 hike when we're getting new Metro cars, new stations, etc. I wouldn't qualify Toronto as losers exactly, they do a lot of things right, and there are even a few things we could learn from them. Of course, there are also things they could learn from us (like using transit fare revenue more efficiently, maintaining the trains better mechanically, etc).

 

As for tuition rates (if that's what you mean by education), I have no problem with increases as long as the teaching quality improves. I go to Concordia, and there are quite a few bad professors to watch out for there. If they could hire better ones for say $500 more a semester, I say go for it!

 

We shouldn't complain about hydro rates either. Despite our green image, Quebec is one of the most wasteful places in the world for electricity (because it's cheap, and has less visible environmental impacts). If we were to conserve more energy (which we might if rates go up), we could export more, and therefore we will have created wealth. Quebec could really throw its weight around in eastern Canada.

 

Mind you, to compensate for the increased user fees of transit, tuition and electricity, we should lower taxes accordingly of course!

[Malek]

I don't know what is that buzz these days (might be caused by Charest) to always compare ourselves to losers... "Our educational system is cheaper than the american one, so let's raise it up!"

 

losers? really? Can't you come up with something better than this? the US have "owned" the 20th century, educated more Nobel prizes than any other nation, came up with inventions that shaped the last century, this one and most probably the next one too... and you have nothing else to say?

 

As I see it, with this and most of your other replies on this board, you're the only ignorant loser here.

[kool maudit]

we should pay more. why do we always think things should basically be free here?

[Habsfan]

we should pay more. why do we always think things should basically be free here?

 

it's our damned socialist mentality!

 

they should make the road users pay for roads and bridges as well.

 

Isn't that why we pay a shitload of income taxes?

[Malek]

we should pay more. why do we always think things should basically be free here?

 

We just replaced Jesus Christ by the Government as our Lord and saviour:rolleyes:

[Fortier]

losers? really? Can't you come up with something better than this? the US have "owned" the 20th century, educated more Nobel prizes than any other nation, came up with inventions that shaped the last century, this one and most probably the next one too... and you have nothing else to say?

 

As I see it, with this and most of your other replies on this board, you're the only ignorant loser here.

 

Je serais intéressé de voir le niveau de diplomation aux études supérieures Québec vs USA...

Et pour les génies, statistiquement les Américains devraient avoir 37,5 X plus d'héros que nous!

[Malek]

Je serais intéressé de voir le niveau de diplomation aux études supérieures Québec vs USA...

Et pour les génies, statistiquement les Américains devraient avoir 37,5 X plus d'héros que nous!

 

Toutes proportions gardées évidemment... j'aurais dû le spécifier vu que t'est pas capable de faire la part des choses

[acpnc]

Admettons que rien n'est gratuit et que l'on paie toujours en bout de ligne d'une façon ou d'une autre, et si ce n'est pas nous qui payons maintenant ce sera les générations futures par l'endettement.

 

Il serait normal que les augmentations suivent l'inflation de manière régulière afin de ne pas assécher les revenus directs qui servent à maintenir les services. Il est aussi clair que plus un service est géré par des revenus directs moins il est assujetti au bon vouloir d'un tiers parti, dans ce cas-ci le gouvernement provincial.

 

Donc plus de revenus directs plus de décisions locales et moins de délais. Bien sûr quand on parle de superstructures comme le métro et les routes, il faut faire appel aux autres niveaux de gouvernement qui ont souvent une partie de l'expertise et aussi parce que ces infrastructures profitent à une partie importante de la région même si elle n'utilise pas nécessairement le service directement.

 

On répartit donc la facture par un plus grands nombre de payeurs qui sont directement ou indirectement bénéficiaires de l'existence d'une infrastructure donnée. On trouve quantité de dossiers du genre partagés par l'ensemble de l'agglomération, les trains de banlieue notamment qui libèrent en partie les routes. Les dossiers ne sont donc pas hermétiques et il y a un phénomène de vases communicants.

 

Il faut donc trouver un juste équilibre pour ne pas écraser l'utilisateur ni transférer des budgets injustement à un autre niveau gouvernemental. Idéalement ce devrait être utilisateur-payeur mais socialement cela deviendrait inéquitable, alors un pourcentage qui se rapproche le plus de l'idéal sans nuire à l'usager doit être favorisé et maintenu tout en étant ajusté annuellement à l'inflation qui affecte tout le monde sans distinction.

[Fortier]

Toutes proportions gardées évidemment... j'aurais dû le spécifier vu que t'est pas capable de faire la part des choses

 

Malek... Je veux bien faire un débat extrême droite vs gauche avec toi. Mais je ne crois pas que ce forum soit vraiment la place pour débattre des capacités intellectuelles de gens qu'on ne connais même pas!