Cirque du Soleil might get permanent Toronto venue

[Habfanman]

why is it more profitable in Toronto. Didnt the cirque want Montreal along with the new casinon concept... right we don't need casino and tourism dollars in Quebec

 

Casinos are what governments turn to when they've run out of ideas. Every bumfuck bankrupt jurisdiction in the U.S. has a casino or 3 these days so the tourism value is practically nil, they just suck money out of the local economy.

 

I would like to see a permanent Cirque show here but not if it meant having to have a cheesy MGM 'resort' as part of the deal. The HQ, school, training facility, athletes residence, reputation etc. is much more important than having just a show.

[SKYMTL]

Casinos are what governments turn to when they've run out of ideas. Every bumfuck bankrupt jurisdiction in the U.S. has a casino or 3 these days so the tourism value is practically nil, they just suck money out of the local economy.

 

I would like to see a permanent Cirque show here but not if it meant having to have a cheesy MGM 'resort' as part of the deal. The HQ, school, training facility, athletes residence, reputation etc. is much more important than having just a show.

 

Funny this is being said now. Meanwhile, if we were getting a complex that was 1/2 of what was proposed for Toronto by MGM, most of the members of this forum would be parading through the streets in celebration.

 

As has already been mentioned: the Cirque goes where they're wanted. The city of Montreal and its NIMBY culture already rejected the Cirque so don't expect them crawling back yet again.

[ToxiK]

why is it more profitable in Toronto. Didnt the cirque want Montreal along with the new casinon concept... right we don't need casino and tourism dollars in Quebec

 

The Cirque du Soleil wasn't going to have a permanent show with the casino.

[peekay]

Give me one good reason why Montreal shouldn't try to build a permanent home for Cirque du Soleil ?

 

I'll give you one word: NIMBYs.

God damn nimbys spoiled the mtl project back in '06.

[ChrisDVD]

You're need to help save us from a casino

Cities across the continent are being assaulted by casino developers

 

By Adam Vaughan

Print this story

 

http://www.ward20.ca/bulletins_article.php?article=182

Soon, City Council will be debating allowing a mega casino to be built in Toronto and casino lobbyists have their eyes on our waterfront.

 

Toronto and East York Community Council wants to hear from residents about their views on the potential location of a Casino in downtown Toronto. We have scheduled a special public consultation session and I hope you can attend:

 

Date: Wednesday October 10, 2012

Time: 6:00 pm

Location: Council Chambers, Toronto City Hall, 100 Queen St W

 

To register to speak, please contact the Clerk, Ros Dyers either by email teycc@toronto.ca or phone 416-392-7033.

 

There are a number of impacts to locating a casino in an established community. To read the staff report follow this link.

Stand up for our city and act to stop a mega casino from being built in Toronto.

Join the No CASINO Toronto campaign!

 

Why am I asking you to join the campaign?

 

Why am asking you to come to City Hall?

 

Casinos are bad for cities

 

 

Not convinced? Then check out what's happening in every corner of the continent. Google "No Casino" and see what comes up. Whether it's Vancouver or Miami, Manhattan, Gettysburg or Pawtucket, city after city, town after town, everyone seems to be fighting a casino proposal.

 

Now Google "Casino debt." Just as quickly, you find out why, from Nevada to Nantucket, from Windsor to Niagara, casinos all over North America are going broke. And when they fail, the cities they reside in fail too.

 

Like the compulsive gamblers they create, casinos all over the continent are losing big right now. Instead of walking away from their losses, they are upping the ante by trying to open new operations in more cities. What they are hoping to find is a new generation of gamblers to keep the house afloat. Let's keep Toronto as far away from this mess as possible.

 

There are good reasons to avoid a casino. The facts and experience of other municipalities make the case pretty clear. In Montreal, virtually 93% of the casino's revenue came straight out of the local economy (MacIasac 1994:38). This means that money bet at the casino wasn’t spent on clothes, rent or food locally, it was sent to the multi-national operator of the gambling facility. Money spent on dining and drinks wasn't spent in local bars or restaurants, it was also sent to the multi-national casino operators.

 

In Atlantic City, 40% of the bars and restaurants near the casino went bankrupt (Corelli, Memeth and Driedger, 1994b). St Louis had a similar experience. The most quoted expert economist, Earl Grinols of Baylor University, says that as economic drivers or job creators, casinos are "at best a wash, for every job created there is a job lost."

 

If the business case doesn't scare you, consider the impact on the city's quality of life. From a social perspective, crime goes up. Street crimes, fraud, loan sharking and prostitution rise when a casino comes to town. Before the casino, Atlantic City rarely made the top 50 list of crime-ridden cities. Since gambling came to town they almost always rank near the top.

 

Casinos are inward looking complexes. Windows are rare; food and drinks served cheap and on site to keep gamblers betting. The head of MGM, when talking to Toronto Council said that a casino requires one parking spot for every slot machine. 5000 are forecast in Toronto. Sound like your vision for the waterfront?

 

One study reports that property values close to a casino drop by about ten per cent. Based on the meagre amount the province shares with local municipalities, the drop in municipal tax revenue will likely outpace whatever cut of the take Toronto gets.

 

The casino industry isn't even contemplating paying market-value for public land. The head of MGM has said that if they got a deal on the land, the City could get a bigger slice of the take. This is coming from a company that's losing money hand over fist in Las Vegas right now.

 

Finally there is the impact on the folks who purport to enjoy gambling. A 2003 report by Earl Grinols calculates the social cost at $289 for every $46 of government revenue. That is over $6.00 in social cost for every $1.00 generated! While most of these costs are tied to crime, there is a significant impact on healthcare costs. Addicted gamblers cost a lot to cure, they often blaze a trail of financial ruin at work and home, and require treatment to manage their affliction. It's next to impossible to get this type of help in Toronto now. Manufacturing more problem gamblers will not help. Proximity to a casino is the most significant risk factor related to problem gambling.

 

Torontonians have considered this issue before and reached the right conclusion. The province is back again and talking up dreams of Celine Dion and Cirque du Soleil tents, conventions and luxury hotels. They won't produce a business plan, won't release the studies that support their case, won't tell us what the city's cut might be, and they have just passed legislation removing the requirement to hold a referendum on this issue.

 

Cynical as that might be, it's probably the only smart part of the proposal because it's clear that if it did go to a vote, Toronto would say no again. That you can bet on.

 

Want to find out more? Follow this link:

 

I hope to see you at City Hall next Tuesday.

 

2012-10-02 19:33:43

[JCC-Fromthere]

Your mileage may vary: Singapore's economy went in overdrive since they have added a casino. Macau has been booming for years (largest casino revenues in the world).

[LindbergMTL]

C'est vrai qu'un casino privé en plein centre-ville... ouch! Le crime organisé s'installe pour longtemps et en Grand!

[monctezuma]

On en sait un peu plus maintenant...

 

La nouvelle plus haute tour au Canada ! (excluant CN, évidamment)

 

 

from interchange42 at UT

 

"A source at City Hall intimately associated with this project has told me that three of the towers proposed here are taller than the Mirvish proposals, and the two to the east are proposed at… one thousand seventy feet each".

 

This plays into the fact that there will be a shortage of office space in the next ten years...this should help fill-in the void nicely...

 

The tallest building in Toronto right now is First Canadian Place at 978ft.

[IluvMTL]

http://www.lapresse.ca/arts/dossiers/cirque-du-soleil/201210/25/01-4586842-le-cirque-du-soleil-favorise-toronto.php

 

Le premier spectacle permanent du Cirque du Soleil au Canada pourrait voir le jour à Toronto plutôt qu'à Montréal.

 

MGM Resorts International, partenaire privilégié du Cirque du Soleil à Las Vegas, a entrepris des démarches pour construire et gérer un casino dans la Ville reine. L'hôtel-casino de 1000 chambres aurait sa salle de spectacle, suivant le modèle de plusieurs de ses complexes de divertissement aux États-Unis. Et cette salle serait gérée par le Cirque du Soleil.

 

La nouvelle a été confirmée par la porte-parole du Cirque du Soleil, Chantal Côté. «Oui, nous avons accepté d'être le fournisseur de contenu de divertissement de MGM dans son projet de casino à Toronto, nous a-t-elle dit. Mais rien n'est encore fait. C'est MGM qui a initié le projet et qui mène les discussions. Nous ne sommes qu'un partenaire.»

 

L'Ontario Lottery and Gaming Corporation (OLG), le pendant de Loto-Québec, a annoncé en mars dernier son intention de construire un nouveau casino au centre-ville de Toronto. Dans un communiqué publié récemment, le président de l'agence gouvernementale, Paul Godfrey, estime que ce projet pourrait augmenter sa contribution annuelle au gouvernement de 1,3 milliard. L'espace consacré aux jeux de hasard représenterait moins de 10% de la superficie du complexe.

 

Le projet du géant MGM, qui gère au moins 14 des plus luxueux hôtels-casinos de Las Vegas, s'inscrit donc dans le cadre d'un appel d'offres lancé par l'OLG à la suite de cette annonce.

 

Le vice-président des affaires publiques chez MGM, Alan Feldman, a confirmé au Toronto Star son souhait de s'installer dans la Ville reine, plus précisément à la place Exhibition, près du bord de l'eau. Il évalue son projet d'hôtel-casino de 1000 chambres à 4 milliards. Le Casino, selon lui, va créer au moins 8000 emplois.

 

Outre le groupe MGM, Caesars Entertainment Corp, qui gère le Caesars Palace, aurait également soumis une proposition.

 

Au début du mois d'octobre, le groupe immobilier Oxford a annoncé son intention d'investir 3 milliards dans la construction d'un complexe de divertissement, comprenant aussi un hôtel et un casino. L'Ontario Lottery and Gaming Corporation, qui doit maintenant examiner les offres, a demandé à la Ville de Toronto de se prononcer sur le projet de casino d'ici février 2013.

 

Camouflet pour Montréal

 

On se souvient qu'au début des années 2000, Loto-Québec avait prévu déménager son casino de l'île Sainte-Hélène au quartier Pointe-Saint-Charles, près du bassin Peel.

 

Le Cirque du Soleil s'était alors associé au projet de 1, 2 milliard de Loto-Québec pour gérer la salle de spectacle du futur Centre récréotouristique.

 

Mais au printemps 2006, à la suite de la publication du rapport Coulombe, qui invitait les promoteurs à retourner à leur table à dessin, le Cirque a annoncé son retrait du projet.

 

À la suite de cet épisode, le PDG Daniel Lamarre a affirmé qu'il n'y aurait jamais à Montréal de salle de spectacle permanente et que la décision du Cirque, après l'échec du projet de Loto-Québec, était «irrévocable». Il s'agissait, selon lui, «d'un rendez-vous manqué».

 

La direction du Cirque a-t-elle toujours le même point de vue sur la question?

 

«Absolument, répond Chantal Côté. On ne reviendra pas là-dessus. Il n'y a pas à Montréal suffisamment d'activité touristique et de population pour qu'un tel projet soit rentable.»

Modifié 25 octobre 2012 par IluvMTL

[Ornello Mastrocola]

WTF! Kudos to Toronto but this is Montreal's baby, why are we jumping on this bandwagon and propose something here? I know all about the Casino project years ago but let's put our thinking caps back on again and come up with a master plan!