pointe-claire Développement du secteur Fairview

[theodore123abc]

4 hours ago, Djentmaster001 said:

Just to clarify, my previous comment was about reaching pre pandemic levels. MTL is still very slow in the recovery. 

 

We aren't on the same podium anymore either, that was 5 years ago. T.O, NYC, Miami, LA, Seattle, etc.. are building much more now. Covid slowed us down and we're very slow to the recovery so far.

Perception based on what you see is not what necessarily is. If you took the time to quickly research any metric you would soon realize you are in fact incorrect when it comes to your observation. The simplest of metrics would be, value of construction permits issued per quarter/year and quantity of units starting construction also on a quarterly or yearly measure. CMHC's website has a ton of information for all markets in Canada divided by towns, cities CMA's , provinces and total on up to a monthly basis so if you are interested to see the stats it's very accessible. One quick excerpt I'd just like to leave you with, from an article in November, so a few months ago. And for context, 2019 was the previous best and was 25k units, (avg pre 2019 was 21k per year) housing starts are only expected to "slow" to 27k in 2022 just based on soaring costs so that slows the demand, yet is still higher than pre-pandemic.

  

[Djentmaster001]

15 minutes ago, theodore123abc said:

Perception based on what you see is not what necessarily is. If you took the time to quickly research any metric you would soon realize you are in fact incorrect when it comes to your observation. The simplest of metrics would be, value of construction permits issued per quarter/year and quantity of units starting construction also on a quarterly or yearly measure. CMHC's website has a ton of information for all markets in Canada divided by towns, cities CMA's , provinces and total on up to a monthly basis so if you are interested to see the stats it's very accessible. One quick excerpt I'd just like to leave you with, from an article in November, so a few months ago. And for context, 2019 was the previous best and was 25k units, (avg pre 2019 was 21k per year) housing starts are only expected to "slow" to 27k in 2022 just based on soaring costs so that slows the demand, yet is still higher than pre-pandemic.

  

Considering I'm involved in the markets, I'm not wrong. Also, projects also include other sectors like office markets, we're far behind the recovery. We haven't had major projects announced in a while, compared to other cities, where major projects are being announced weekly.  We still have more red tape than a lot of places (fact), more nimbysim than almost all places (fact) and the political will/power is lethargic at best. Most of what's going up is stuff pre pandemic and is factored into housing starts stats. Also key word is expected, not guaranteed. 

 

Don't be afraid to admit that MTL is at a slow start as always. Just look at other forums and news from cities re: new announced projects and economic investments. Its been very slow so far for us and my contacts in the business community have told me it's been sluggish this year. Obviously it's more short term, but there's enough evidence for that. 

[Né entre les rapides]

Four brief additional points:

1) Pointe-Claire is an undisputable case of nimbyism.

2) Traditionally, Montréal (and the whole of Québec) is late in the business cycle (heats up later, revovers later).

3) Admittedly, the City of Montréal's current administration is "shy", in other words, reluctant to approve tall buildings, but I do not think it has a significant effect on the overall volume of construction in the metro area.   

4) (of minor importance, but just to make a point)  -- When comparing the population of large metro areas, Greater Los Angeles ("le grand L.A.") is not merely made up of the Los Angeles County, but also includes the adjacent counties of Orange, San Bernardino, Riverside and Ventura.  Total population of the Combined Statistical Area is approximately 20 million, rivaling New York City's equivalent.

 

[theodore123abc]

1 hour ago, Djentmaster001 said:

Considering I'm involved in the markets, I'm not wrong. Also, projects also include other sectors like office markets, we're far behind the recovery. We haven't had major projects announced in a while, compared to other cities, where major projects are being announced weekly.  We still have more red tape than a lot of places (fact), more nimbysim than almost all places (fact) and the political will/power is lethargic at best. Most of what's going up is stuff pre pandemic and is factored into housing starts stats. Also key word is expected, not guaranteed. 

 

Don't be afraid to admit that MTL is at a slow start as always. Just look at other forums and news from cities re: new announced projects and economic investments. Its been very slow so far for us and my contacts in the business community have told me it's been sluggish this year. Obviously it's more short term, but there's enough evidence for that. 

For sure, we've always taken our time and had more hurdles, and there's been more red tape for ages. We've also have a huge Nimby problem for a long time, however, that was not the facts you claimed,  your point was about recovery from the pandemic specifically that we are lagging both behind other major cities and our pre-pandemic levels, I was simply stating through actual tangible facts that this was wrong. We're in record breaking times for real estate investment in residential, commercial and industrial, had the fastest jobs market recovery for major Canadian cites and highest GDP growth of major cities. that's the recovery part. Where you'd be right (if the point was brought up) would be keeping more of our immigration, keeping our university students after graduation, better interprovincial migration (this year was the first time in a long time Quebec has had a positive migration with Ontario, which is finally the right direction [to be seen if this happens again]), income growth to bring Montreal to on par and exceed the national average, larger overall growth, shrinking the gap with TO and New York, sure these are all things to work on and in many ways we're behind in that (possibly still moving further behind) I wasn't and I don't think anyone else was arguing that.

"Just to clarify, my previous comment was about reaching pre pandemic levels. MTL is still very slow in the recovery. 

 

We aren't on the same podium anymore either, that was 5 years ago. T.O, NYC, Miami, LA, Seattle, etc.. are building much more now. Covid slowed us down and we're very slow to the recovery so far."

[Wave Arts]

3 hours ago, Djentmaster001 said:

We still have more red tape than a lot of places (fact), more nimbysim than almost all places (fact) and the political will/power is lethargic at best.

Ce ne sont pas des faits s'il n'y a pas de source et si ce n'est même pas vérifiable. Comment mesures-tu le niveau de nymbisme d'une ville à l'autre, par exemple? 

Ce n'est pas parce que tu es dans le monde des marchés que tes propos deviennent des vérités. Pour l'instant, tu sembles te baser sur l'activité dans des forums et sur une connaissance.

[setop]

What a joke: https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/west-island-gazette/pointe-claire-council-flip-flops-and-freezes-cadillac-fairview-project

[Doctor D]

NIMBYS gagne encore

[Rocco]

Now I Must Bust Your Sorry (insert your favorite anatomy part here)

[Né entre les rapides]

I wonder (or is that clear enough?) if Cadillac Fairview will  pursue its previously  (in March) announced intent to take legal action against the city.  Besides, I have a hard time buying the argument whereby the "pause" a.k.a. the freeze. will give the city the time to update its urban plan  -- as if the REM had not been in the making for many years and as if Cadillac Fairview had not already  been working with the city on that project.  One would have reasonably expected that the updating of the urban plan would have been well on its way to completion by now.  

The Pointe-Claire citizens opposed to the project were just buying time, and the elected officials followed suit --for short term gain.  But the end result might not be to their liking.

[SameGuy]

CF is playing nice — for now…

https://res.cloudinary.com/courbanize-production/image/upload/v1651612125/Lettre_Pointe_Claire_2_mai_2022_envoyé_wtxnhy.pdf