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VIA Rail - Discussion générale ​


IluvMTL

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59 minutes ago, SamStar said:

How much extra do you have to pay per month for your plates/insurance/mechanics/car payments?

 

I think you missed my point entirely.

I said we unfailingly subsidize roads and automobiles above transit on this continent. I’ve already paid costs you itemized  whether I hop on the 20/401 to Toronto or not; the costs to run the national passenger railway are also paid for whether I use it or not. But in Europe and Asia, proportionally much more is spent by the state on mass transit than on the highways, while individuals pay much more to use the roads than they do mass transit. It’s not up for debate.

Spending billions on VIA while still subsidizing individual automobile use will simply never be a solution.

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14 minutes ago, andre md said:

Subaru impreza 2021 gas consumption on hwy 7.5 l/100 km 

Distance Montreal-Toronto 540 km

Price of 1.25$ liter

540÷100×7,5 = 40.5 liters

40.5 liters × 1,25$ = 50,62$ 

Exactly. Subsidized. 540 km (Roma-Nord to Milano-Ovest, for example) at Roman gas prices today is $87, plus $62 in highway tolls (on top of the astronomical sales taxes on cars and crazy prices to register and insure a car in Italy). It’s substantially cheaper for the average person to take the Frecciarossa HSR and be there in three hours.

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24 minutes ago, andre md said:

Subaru impreza 2021 gas consumption on hwy 7.5 l/100 km 

Distance Montreal-Toronto 540 km

Price of regular gas 1.25$ liter

540÷100×7,5 = 40.5 liters

40.5 liters × 1,25$ = 50,62$ 

Aller simple pour Toronto Vendredi 16 avril 2021

Departure 13.23 

Arrival 18.33 

Cost 49$ 

https://m.reservia.viarail.ca/#

 

 

Screenshot_2021-04-01-20-36-39-29_40deb401b9ffe8e1df2f1cc5ba480b12.jpg

Well ok, if we’re going by “lowest available fare,” the Frecciarossa is just €18 and there are 42 departures a day! Here, if we want convenience, one can find sub-$100 fares on Porter and AC Express, park and go through security at Dorval, and walk from YTZ to the Rogers Centre in less time than it takes for the train to get from Dorval to Union.

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7 hours ago, p_xavier said:

As they are losing money on every passenger still, basically it's the less passengers we get the less money we lose.  Hence why the service is not great.

Thats why VIA was put up by the Canadian government in 1978. Private rail companies were losing money on passengers for years and were getting out of rail transit for customers. Imagine Canada without a single passenger rail company! VIA was bound to lose money forever, but was created as a public service. Nothing to cry to mom about. Transit will always lose money. (Except for the REM, of course *cough cough*)

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The point of HFR is not to compete with driving per se. For those who live in the suburbs with 2 SUVs, big McMansion, and 2 kids and a dog, driving will ALWAYS trump any sort of bus, train, or transit for short to medium length trips. It's the theory of sunk costs - you've already put up tens of thousands towards your car, insurance, maintenance, etc. - so you'll always be compelled to use it to the maximum extent even when there are equivalent alternatives.

I used to take VIA corridor service between MTL and Toronto Union almost every 2 weeks for work, and can tell you on many days the train was easily sold out. VIA HFR's biggest proposition is to make TO-Ottawa and TO-MTL more attractive than air travel. There were well over 50+ flights between YUL, YYZ, and YTZ everyday precovid, many of them priced 2-3 times higher than even VIA's business class. If VIA HFR is able to even capture just 10-20% of additional TO-MTL air traffic, that's already a huge win. VIA HFR aims to deliver TO-MTL under 4.5 hrs, TO-Ottawa under 3 hrs, and most of all - hourly service and guaranteed arrival times with dedicated tracks and ability to upgrade to HSR in the future.

If I could travel from my office in downtown TO to downtown MTL in 4.5 hrs, that already beats air travel because I could work, relax, sleep, eat / drink, and watch 2 netflix movies uninterrupted during those 4.5 hrs, vs. flying:

- 20 to 60 min to Uber to YYZ or YTZ (from downtown TO office, vs. a 10 min walk to Union station)

- 20 to 30 min to pass thru security 

- 45 to 90 min waiting at airport lounge (assuming no delays or cancellations, which happen often at YTZ airport)

- 15 min lining up to board plane

- 30 min for plane to taxi/take off (assuming there's no de-icing or random delays)

- 60 min inflight

- 15 min to taxi to gate

- 15 min to get off plane, get taxi

- 35-50 min taxi to downtown MTL

Flying may be marginally faster, but it's a lot of "hurry up and wait" and you end up wasting half your day going through the hoops and end up totally exhausted by the time you land. I'm sure everyone who frequently flies short distances between MTL-NYC, MTL-TO, MTL-BOS can relate to the above.

And yes, I agree that driving between cities should incur additional costs. E.g. tolls on the 401 like in Asia or Europe. 

Modifié par FrodoMTL
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Il y a 1 heure, FrodoMTL a dit :

The point of HFR is not to compete with driving per se. For those who live in the suburbs with 2 SUVs, big McMansion, and 2 kids and a dog, driving will ALWAYS trump any sort of bus, train, or transit for short to medium length trips. It's the theory of sunk costs - you've already put up tens of thousands towards your car, insurance, maintenance, etc. - so you'll always be compelled to use it to the maximum extent even when there are equivalent alternatives.

I used to take VIA corridor service between MTL and Toronto Union almost every 2 weeks for work, and can tell you on many days the train was easily sold out. VIA HFR's biggest proposition is to make TO-Ottawa and TO-MTL more attractive than air travel. There were well over 50+ flights between YUL, YYZ, and YTZ everyday precovid, many of them priced 2-3 times higher than even VIA's business class. If VIA HFR is able to even capture just 10-20% of additional TO-MTL air traffic, that's already a huge win. VIA HFR aims to deliver TO-MTL under 4.5 hrs, TO-Ottawa under 3 hrs, and most of all - hourly service and guaranteed arrival times with dedicated tracks and ability to upgrade to HSR in the future.

If I could travel from my office in downtown TO to downtown MTL in 4.5 hrs, that already beats air travel because I could work, relax, sleep, eat / drink, and watch 2 netflix movies uninterrupted during those 4.5 hrs, vs. flying:

- 20 to 60 min to Uber to YYZ or YTZ (from downtown TO office, vs. a 10 min walk to Union station)

- 20 to 30 min to pass thru security 

- 45 to 90 min waiting at airport lounge (assuming no delays or cancellations, which happen often at YTZ airport)

- 15 min lining up to board plane

- 30 min for plane to taxi/take off (assuming there's no de-icing or random delays)

- 60 min inflight

- 15 min to taxi to gate

- 15 min to get off plane, get taxi

- 35-50 min taxi to downtown MTL

Flying may be marginally faster, but it's a lot of "hurry up and wait" and you end up wasting half your day going through the hoops and end up totally exhausted by the time you land. I'm sure everyone who frequently flies short distances between MTL-NYC, MTL-TO, MTL-BOS can relate to the above.

And yes, I agree that driving between cities should incur additional costs. E.g. tolls on the 401 like in Asia or Europe. 

The high speed train Madrid-Barcelona. 70 km longer distance  than Montreal-Toronto ,  kill the airlines flights between the two cities. 

 

 

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Trains should be high-speed and high-frequency where possible, especially between the 2 biggest cities of a country.

Basically people moving in a car/bus/train/plane do not contribute to an economy, and thus we should minimize such downtime.

The Chinese understand that:

 

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On 2021-04-02 at 4:31 PM, andre md said:

The high speed train Madrid-Barcelona. 70 km longer distance  than Montreal-Toronto ,  kill the airlines flights between the two cities. 

 

 

That is pretty much understandable. The stations are pretty much in the heart of the city, security is pretty much none existent, even though Europe trains are known to be targets by terrorists. 

Madrid - Barcelona (high speed) under 3 hours

Madrid - Barcelona (flight) under 80 mins (excl. "mandatory" time to be at the airport and commute to the airport)

In the end, the flight might take the same amount of time or more, compared to the train.

On 2021-04-02 at 4:37 PM, Decel said:

Trains should be high-speed and high-frequency where possible, especially between the 2 biggest cities of a country.

Basically people moving in a car/bus/train/plane do not contribute to an economy, and thus we should minimize such downtime.

The Chinese understand that:

 

China shape and population helps feed the need for that type of transport.

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il y a 21 minutes, jesseps a dit :

China shape and population helps feed the need for that type of transport.

Absolutely, just as Quebec's/Canada's business model (VIA is trains and only trains, not owning land and properties) is preventing it from having the necessary financial assets to manage itself independently on a financial term.

Same can be said about the STM.

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