VIA Rail - Discussion générale ​

[Né entre les rapides]

il y a 13 minutes, SameGuy a dit :

Again, if countries like Morocco and Poland and Uzbekistan are developing high speed rail in their countries, there is a little excuse for a wealthy country like Canada to stick with standard rail between its two largest cities.

Especially since a federal budget deficit of some $354 billion in fiscal 2020-21 was "nothing"...

I do not know the sources of funding for the Morocco and Uzbekistan undertakings, but for Poland, development funds from the EU were obviously appealing.  But we do not need "help", just will.  Our problem might be that we insist that the required investment be profitable from a narrow private perspective; (positive) externalities appear to be ignored, which is doubly surprising given an apparent willingness to pay the price for the "greening" of the country.  

[SameGuy]

1 hour ago, Né entre les rapides said:

Especially since a federal budget deficit of some $354 billion in fiscal 2020-21 was "nothing"...

I do not know the sources of funding for the Morocco and Uzbekistan undertakings, but for Poland, development funds from the EU were obviously appealing.  But we do not need "help", just will.  Our problem might be that we insist that the required investment be profitable from a narrow private perspective; (positive) externalities appear to be ignored, which is doubly surprising given an apparent willingness to pay the price for the "greening" of the country.  

This, this, 100% this.

[Enalung]

2 hours ago, Né entre les rapides said:

Especially since a federal budget deficit of some $354 billion in fiscal 2020-21 was "nothing"...

I do not know the sources of funding for the Morocco and Uzbekistan undertakings, but for Poland, development funds from the EU were obviously appealing.  But we do not need "help", just will.  Our problem might be that we insist that the required investment be profitable from a narrow private perspective; (positive) externalities appear to be ignored, which is doubly surprising given an apparent willingness to pay the price for the "greening" of the country.  

Economic benefits and opportunities that arise as a result of HSR should be considered in this equation. We also need to consider our competitive position in the world. HSR would strengthen Montreal's and Toronto's position on the world stage.

[andre md]

Il y a 2 heures, Né entre les rapides a dit :

Especially since a federal budget deficit of some $354 billion in fiscal 2020-21 was "nothing"...

I do not know the sources of funding for the Morocco and Uzbekistan undertakings, but for Poland, development funds from the EU were obviously appealing.  But we do not need "help", just will.  Our problem might be that we insist that the required investment be profitable from a narrow private perspective; (positive) externalities appear to be ignored, which is doubly surprising given an apparent willingness to pay the price for the "greening" of the country.  

On peut dire la meme chose pour les autouroute sont elle profitable ou non ? A ce que je sache le gouvernement province assument l'entiereté du financement des autoroutes a part les ponts. 

 

[Né entre les rapides]

il y a 34 minutes, andre md a dit :

On peut dire la meme chose pour les autouroute sont elle profitable ou non ? A ce que je sache le gouvernement province assument l'entiereté du financement des autoroutes a part les ponts. 

 

Une catégorie d'externalités (positives) afférentes au TGV (et d'autres modes de transport mus par l'électricité, et qui remplacent les vols aériens et les automobiles non-électriques) ne s'applique pas aux autoroutes.  Ça ne veut pas dire que les autoroutes ne génèrent pas d'externalités dont certaines peuvent être positives  -- et bien d'autres, négatives, mais c'est autre chose.  Dans mon message précédent, je me limitais aux effets sur les émissions de gaz à effets de serre -- qui peuvent maintenant être quantifiées grâce au marché du carbone; avant, il fallait s'en remettre à des études qui, quelles que soient leurs validité, étaient toujours sujettes à des contestations par des opposants.

Le sujet est classique: comment "internaliser" des effets qui dépassent le cadre des profits et des pertes encourus par des entreprises privées.  Quand c'est la collectivité (généralement via l'Etat) qui paie, elle est en droit de prendre en compte/calculer l'ensemble des effets d'une activité/d'un choix parmi les options qui se présentent.  

[TER200]

Il y a 4 heures, SameGuy a dit :

Not “no.” The trains existed, and were capable of 200 km/h. 83 years ago. The same as our stupid TGF/HFR proposal IN 2021. VIA’s HFR won’t run at 200 km/h, it will be capable of 200 km/h.

Le problème c'est pas les trains, c'est de construire une infrastructure qui le justifie sur des longueurs suffisantes. Sinon c'est du gaspillage ou de la frime.

 

Du coup si ça peut répondre à ça :

Le 2021-08-13 à 19:51, swansongtoo a dit :

This may have been asked and answered in a previous post but can rail infrastructure to allow for TGF today be built to accommodate TGV rolling stock tomorrow?

Ça dépend essentiellement des courbes du tracé. Si elles sont très larges, pas trop de problème pour augmenter la vitesse plus tard (mais il faut peut-être refaire la voie et la caténaire et augmenter l'espace entre les voies).

Mais si tout est conçu pour la très grande vitesse dès le départ, autant l'utiliser tout de suite comme tel, non ? (étant entendu que nous ne somme plus en 1977, des trains capables de rouler à 300+ km/h ne manquent pas sur le marché).

[Né entre les rapides]

il y a 51 minutes, TER200 a dit :

Le problème c'est pas les trains, c'est de construire une infrastructure qui le justifie sur des longueurs suffisantes. Sinon c'est du gaspillage ou de la frime.

Mais si tout est conçu pour la très grande vitesse dès le départ, autant l'utiliser tout de suite comme tel, non ? (étant entendu que nous ne somme plus en 1977, des trains capables de rouler à 300+ km/h ne manquent pas sur le marché).

C'est très pertinent, car il me semble que le coût plus élevé d'un TGV par rapport à celui d'un TGF se situe principalement au niveau des infrastructures, pas du matériel roulant.  

 

[Decel]

Pendant qu'on débatte à savoir si le TGF est suffisant pour les besoins de MTL-To, ailleurs on trouve qu'un TGV est pas assez vite...

Un MAGLEV est définitevement overkill pour nous, mais selon moi implémenter un TGF va nous crystaliser dans le passé.

Aussi intéressant d'entendre les critiques soulevés lors de l'implémentation de leur premier TGV, ça semble assez familier...

Aussi, ceci ne s'applique probablement pas à notre situation:

Citation

If Chuo Shinkansen is successful, then it has the potential to create a commutable distance between the country's two largest cities...

... Merging major cities like this has the potential to create economic powerhouses on a scale we've never seen before.

 

[amaist]

Dreaming of TGV trains is great. I enjoyed taking the TGV in France. Hell, I took the "high speed" train in Russia. Still incomparably better than the bouncefest that is VIA Montreal-Toronto track. The only way the wine during business class lunch would stay off my clothes was when I held the glass steadily and emptied it into my mouth.

Maybe we should first convince the Canadian railroad companies to research this wondrous technology of concrete rail ties. Even godless communists in USSR could figure it out. But it's sort of like putting a separate amber blinker on the back of the car. American car makers just don't seem to understand how to do it. Just blink the red brake light.

I was hoping that when they moved the rails during the Turcot project that they would use concrete ties in the new section. Nope! Same old lumber soaked in whatever nasty chemicals they soak wooden rail ties. Welcome to 1921!

To my great relief, there is not a single piece of lumber holding up the REM rails.

[Enalung]

14 hours ago, amaist said:

Dreaming of TGV trains is great. I enjoyed taking the TGV in France. Hell, I took the "high speed" train in Russia. Still incomparably better than the bouncefest that is VIA Montreal-Toronto track. The only way the wine during business class lunch would stay off my clothes was when I held the glass steadily and emptied it into my mouth.

Maybe we should first convince the Canadian railroad companies to research this wondrous technology of concrete rail ties. Even godless communists in USSR could figure it out. But it's sort of like putting a separate amber blinker on the back of the car. American car makers just don't seem to understand how to do it. Just blink the red brake light.

I was hoping that when they moved the rails during the Turcot project that they would use concrete ties in the new section. Nope! Same old lumber soaked in whatever nasty chemicals they soak wooden rail ties. Welcome to 1921!

To my great relief, there is not a single piece of lumber holding up the REM rails.

That "chemical" is called creosote. Basically, it is the a type of tar that is left over from the refining oil.