VIA Rail - Discussion générale ​

[SameGuy]

The difference between a “shin” station at A40 and those in Japan is that the Shinkansen stations in Japan usually handle more than one line to continue on past the cities they serve. So in theory, the A40 station could eventually be redeveloped to handle the TGF and a flyover could be built to continue the TGF on new tracks along the current Mascouche line route through the CSL yards, continuing on towards Ontario along the A20 right of way without ever going around the mountain to Central Station. This is how it’s done in many cities around the world. The big difference is those cities typically do this for 300 km/h trains.

[Decel]

Il y a 2 heures, SamStar a dit :

Un TGV est cependant plus long à construire et coûterait, selon les sources, entre deux et cinq fois plus cher qu’un TGF.

À 2 fois plus cher c'est un no-brainer d'avoir un TGV à mon avis

Il y a 2 heures, SamStar a dit :

Via Rail a longtemps soutenu qu’un lien direct jusqu’au centre-ville était une condition essentielle à l’attractivité de la ligne Québec-Montréal.

C'est ce genre de dogme qui tue la viabilité d'un projet.

Il y a 2 heures, SamStar a dit :

Le problème ici, c’est que ça fait plus de 30 ans que les pouvoirs publics commandent des études pour améliorer le service ferroviaire dans le corridor Québec-Toronto (on envisageait au début d’aller jusqu’à Windsor).

Plus de trois décennies et on ne sait pas encore par où entrer au centre-ville de Montréal et si le projet va coûter le simple ou le double. C’est désespérant.

30 ans c'est rien. Ne connaissent-ils pas le projet de l'extension de la ligne bleue?

[Enalung]

I've got a few problems with that article linked by @SamStar. It mentions a tunnel under Parc as an option, but dismisses it right away due to potential delays. On the other end, it mentions that "shin" stations are very common worldwide. Another thing that is "very common" is to run a temporary service on an alternate line until the missing piece of infrastructure is finished. Assuming that going to gare central and building a new tunnel is the chosen option, there is nothing stopping VIA from operating the line by going around the mountain until the tunnel is finished. (Let's not discuss the price of that tunnel again, I'm just making a critique of the shortcut taken by the article). 

The article also assumes that the missing 10% of the trip is going to be done using diesel. A few months ago in the Trains de banlieue thread, we discussed battery trains. I beleive that at the end of that discussion, we were all on the same page to say that it is a viable option. I also think that the federal government should take on the train compagnies. Gas car sales are going to be banned by 2035. I guess that we are going to keep operating diesel trains for the foreseeable future? There needs to be a mandate from the federal government to start electrifying the network, or at the very least, accept electrification on their network where the track is shared with passenger trains.

Heck, a large part of the reason why VIA needs to build a new track are the recurrent delays it suffers when using CN or CP's tracks. Humans aren't animals, or freight. Theses delays aren't acceptable and seriously compromise the viability of passenger train services. Passenger train services need to have a higher priority. If anything, I would really like the federal government to push CN and CP into a trade-off where they allow / give into some of those demands in exchange for being let off the hook with their diesel trains.

[Spiter_01]

I find it hilarious that anyone takes these TGV guestimations seriously, the federal government is already incapable of costing procurement projects for areas it supposedly has some competency in (military procurement) and people think they can even come in with something that's even vaguely accurate for a TGV.

Speaking of electrifying and electric cars, does anyone think it would be technically feasible to operate a "Eurotunnel Shuttle" style service between the outskirts of Montreal and Toronto that would charge one's electric car during the journey?

[go_habs_go]

1 hour ago, Kolev3000 said:

Aujourd’hui va être une excellente journée !

Excellent article de La Presse + (Pas encore sur leur site web mais c’est important que vous ayez l’information tout de suite…Ça va enflammer les discussions! Amusez-vous les amis !  )

Étude de l’AMT de 2007 directement tout frais, tout chaud de mon cloud ! 

 

Love the idea but just don't see the political will and dollars to make this happen. Hope I'm wrong.

[go_habs_go]

4 minutes ago, Kolev3000 said:

L’enveloppe en transport en commun des libéraux couvre amplement les coûts, en plus de la Banque d’infrastructures du Canada qui peut venir en renfort également…

Le but du TGF par rapport au TGV c’est de desservir le plus de ville possible dans le corridor Quebec-Windsor…Pour des raisons de….

Political Will comme tu dis

J'espère que tu as raison. J'aime ton optimisme, alors tu as mon vote!! 😄

[Spiter_01]

This isn't happening for a TGF only, maybe if you frame it as a mega-mega regional public transit infrastructure project something akin to the "decarie of public transit" where you literally get all the actors on-board. Better service on the st-jerome line, TGF for via, REM branch to Laval/north-shore, otherwise the costs aren't justifiable. 

Also that would require CP to sell that spur which I'm not entirely sure how willing they are, you'd probably have to build new tracks on the north-shore somewhere to connect the Quebec Gatineau Railway corridor that currently uses CP through Laval.

[AMTFan1]

il y a 21 minutes, Spiter_01 a dit :

This isn't happening for a TGF only, maybe if you frame it as a mega-mega regional public transit infrastructure project something akin to the "decarie of public transit" where you literally get all the actors on-board. Better service on the st-jerome line, TGF for via, REM branch to Laval/north-shore, otherwise the costs aren't justifiable. 

Also that would require CP to sell that spur which I'm not entirely sure how willing they are, you'd probably have to build new tracks on the north-shore somewhere to connect the Quebec Gatineau Railway corridor that currently uses CP through Laval.

Exo said on a Montreal Gazette article that they want to purchase and electrify the Parc subdivision section between Blainville and Parc stations used by the St-Jérôme line. Exo (or former AMT) already owns the section between St-Jérôme and Blainville. The CP rarely uses the Parc subdivision, except when winter approaches for transportation of grain, and the Quebec Gatineau Railway when they need to go to Taschereau yard. This corridor, since it isn't as used by freight trains as other corridors, could be the perfect candidate for passenger trains with both VIA and Exo using it.

https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/exo-chief-sylvain-yelle-tells-quebec-not-to-forget-suburban-trains

Citation

• Purchasing the St-Jérôme train line from Blainville to Parc Ave. and electrifying it, to allow trains to run more frequently.

[...]

• Working on a way to keep the Mascouche line attractive after the construction of the REM de l’Est, which could be completed as early as 2029. That line will become less useful for on-island dwellers, since the REM de l’Est is likely to offer a more direct route downtown. The Mascouche line has also been unable to use the Mount Royal Tunnel for more than a year, and it won’t be able to after the REM is in service. Exo is in discussions with VIA Rail to explore the possibility of building an alternate route downtown.

 

[SameGuy]

We are beating a dead horse here.

The federal government in power right now is losing ground in every district except the west island lol. It’s an election year, so they’ve announced what sounds like an amazing big project, $6 billion-$12 billion — for what amounts to nothing more than a bog-standard, low-speed train that isn’t even 100% electrified, in the hopes of increasing ridership from 5000 passengers a day to 15,000 passengers a day by 2050. It’s nonsensical, as long as there is subsidized gasoline, and multiple other cheap modes of travel in the corridor. Anything other than acquiring space for dedicated tracks in existing rights of way will require a concord between the feds, the province and multiple local administrations, and then further massive investments for gee-whiz infrastructure that simply isn’t needed to address the current and future needs of the actual residents and businesses of this city.

Other than Union and Centrale, VIA stations are nothing more than a shack with a strip of asphalt at ground level that serves as a “platform,” and it has been like this since VIA took over passenger service from disinterested CN and CP in 1978. The feds are no more interested in spending $10 billion for a tunnel under Montreal than the CAQ was in doing so for a Pink Line.

It’s nice to dream big, but stories like this come and go, and have done so every couple of months for decades. I admire your optimism, but don’t read too much into a La Presse opinion piece.

[Spiter_01]

11 minutes ago, AMTFan1 said:

Exo said on a Montreal Gazette article that they want to purchase and electrify the Parc subdivision section between Blainville and Parc stations used by the St-Jérôme line. Exo (or former AMT) already owns the section between St-Jérôme and Blainville. The CP rarely uses the Parc subdivision, except when winter approaches for transportation of grain, and the Quebec Gatineau Railway when they need to go to Taschereau yard. This corridor, since it isn't as used by freight trains as other corridors, could be the perfect candidate for passenger trains with both VIA and Exo using it.

https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/exo-chief-sylvain-yelle-tells-quebec-not-to-forget-suburban-trains

 

Yes it's well known that AMT/EXO have had it in their eyes/plans for a long time, but I haven't seen any public indication that CP is interested in selling it.