montréal REM de l'Est

[SameGuy]

4 minutes ago, Cataclaw said:

NIMBYs in this city need to visit NYC and Vancouver and see for themselves that the SkyTrain and elevated subway are awesome. They add so much charm and value to the street, they don't hinder movements at ground level at all, and you forget that the structures are even there.

SkyTrain goes below downtown Vancouver, both cut-and-cover as well as bored tunnel. Similarly, there are no elevated trains in Manhattan. 

[mashdash]

il y a 2 minutes, Enalung a dit :

This has also been discussed. Beyond the technical problems that would pose in front of Gare Centrale, there's absolutely no way that anybody would tolerate an elevated structure in front of the St-Mary Cathedral. There's also the fact that the only way to exit the René-Lévesque alignment while elevated is through the Ernest Cormier Esplanade. Talk about getting the Nimby riled up! A tunnel is truly the only viable option if we want to continue further west.

Hopefully then if they do plan a tunnel, they plan for an "easy" expansion under Gare Centrale tracks and not just up to the tracks

[Cataclaw]

1 minute ago, SameGuy said:

SkyTrain goes below downtown Vancouver, both cut-and-cover as well as bored tunnel.

Yes of course, but that's not the point. I'm referring to the elevated segments, which I argue are not the great big evil that NIMBYs make them out to be.

[mashdash]

il y a 6 minutes, SameGuy a dit :

SkyTrain goes below downtown Vancouver, both cut-and-cover as well as bored tunnel. Similarly, there are no elevated trains in Manhattan. 

That's true, the most equivalent would be Bangkok Skytrain, which goes through their downtown with tall buildings, and it goes down a boulevard as well.

Modifié 25 janvier 2022 par mashdash

[Cataclaw]

7 minutes ago, SameGuy said:

Similarly, there are no elevated trains in Manhattan. 

The Park Ave line would like a word with you. The NYC subway has elevated portions all over the place, e.g. the Astoria line. These are extremely dense neighbourhoods that blow Sherbrooke Est. out of the water.

I think the tunnel portion in downtown Montreal is fine, but Sherbrooke Est should have remained elevated. This is caving in to NIMBYs who have clearly never been to Vancouver or NYC.

[SameGuy]

Yeah we’ve been over this before, Tokyo, Bangkok, Kuala Lumpur, and others. But it is somewhat difficult and disingenuous to compare crowded, vertically-oriented Asian cities with our rather serene western downtowns.

2 minutes ago, mashdash said:

That's true, the most equivalent would be Bangkok Skytrain then.

 

Just now, Cataclaw said:

The NYC subway has elevated portions all over the place, e.g. the Astoria line

But not Manhattan. Again, NYC isn’t comparable to anywhere else in North America.

[Cataclaw]

SameGuy, you're commenting about the downtown portion but I've talking about Sherbrooke Est here. The downtown tunnel is fine. It should all be tunneled to be honest, at least they are doing some of it. Sherbrooke should be aerial. I hope the residents of those neighbourhoods, realizing that they are losing the REM, demand that it come back. Maybe this is CDPQi's strategy

[jesseps]

Is that 4 km move south such a big problem?

[Cataclaw]

9 minutes ago, SameGuy said:

But not Manhattan. Again, NYC isn’t comparable to anywhere else in North America.

Why are you arguing a straw man with me? We have the same position. I'm in favour of the REM being tunneled downtown.

That said, Astoria has a greater population density than downtown Montreal, so it is definitely comparable. Plus there is the Park ave line. But I'm not even suggesting the REM needs to be elevated downtown, I just want it elevated over Sherbrooke in the East, which is certainly not as dense as downtown and definitely not as dense as Astoria. The SkyTrain certainly goes elevated through neighbourhoods far less dense than that.

 

Quote

Is that 4 km move south such a big problem?

Yes because we lose a connection with the green line and the new stations to the south will be far removed from the demographic center of the area.

If you look at how many residents live within a 1-3km distance from each option, you will see that the northern alignment services far more people than the southern one.

[SameGuy]

3 minutes ago, Cataclaw said:

SameGuy, you're commenting about the downtown portion but I've talking about Sherbrooke Est here. The downtown tunnel is fine. It should all be tunneled to be honest, at least they are doing some of it. Sherbrooke should be aerial. I hope the residents of those neighbourhoods, realizing that they are losing the REM, demand that it come back. Maybe this is CDPQi's strategy

I realize that. Sorry if it sounded like I’m talking past you; I was just countering the generalization of Vancouver and NYC trains being elevated.

That said, I can’t wait to find out what residents of DDO, Roxboro, and Pierrefonds think when the elevated portions are fully built just a few feet from their backyards, or worse, when a train blows by every five minutes in both directions every rush hour…