ville mont-royal Royalmount

[go_habs_go]

1 hour ago, vincenzo said:

Let the centers fight it out. That is how we achieve better and more. They will need to better their offer or they don't survive.

Agreed. If Royalmount fails, it fails. If it succeeds and Marche Central or Rockland decline, then it's up to those centers to improve their offering. Anyway, at least that's how I see it...

[internationalx]

The issues with traffic and circulation notwithstanding, in this moment where retail is undergoing a major revolution, it's not a terrible idea to have a large, mega-mall that being designed and conceived as the next-generation destination mall in the geographic center (roughly) of the island of Montreal.  From an  retailer's perceptive too, Carrefour Laval, is often their first location,  then downtown, then Fairview, etc...  Not so bad to have a Yorkdale of our own.   

I do think Rockland will ultimately die.  Place Vertu serves a total different clientele than what Royalmount will; it gets a lot of business from the industrial parks and offices in the corner.  I predict Place Vertu will ultimately get smaller and the land built on with housing.  

 

Look:  the mall is being reinvented.  They are becoming destinations that have a lot of dining, entertainment and shopping.  

[vincenzo]

2 hours ago, internationalx said:

The issues with traffic and circulation notwithstanding, in this moment where retail is undergoing a major revolution, it's not a terrible idea to have a large, mega-mall that being designed and conceived as the next-generation destination mall in the geographic center (roughly) of the island of Montreal.  From an  retailer's perceptive too, Carrefour Laval, is often their first location,  then downtown, then Fairview, etc...  Not so bad to have a Yorkdale of our own.   

I do think Rockland will ultimately die.  Place Vertu serves a total different clientele than what Royalmount will; it gets a lot of business from the industrial parks and offices in the corner.  I predict Place Vertu will ultimately get smaller and the land built on with housing.  

 

Look:  the mall is being reinvented.  They are becoming destinations that have a lot of dining, entertainment and shopping.  

I agree with your assessment of Vertu and Rockland but they will both thrive if switched to a mega residential project.

[LexD]

11 minutes ago, vincenzo said:

I agree with your assessment of Vertu and Rockland but they will both thrive if switched to a mega residential project.

Montréal is decades behind Toronto and Vancouver when it comes to integrating high density residential with shopping malls.

[_mtler_]

5 hours ago, LexD said:

Montréal is decades behind Toronto and Vancouver when it comes to integrating high density residential with shopping malls.

Just like the construction boom was behind in Montreal, and we’re living it now. Similarly shopping mall conversion/integration is on its way. Plans were proposed for Place Versailles and I bet others (eg Place Vertu) will follow suit. 

[Yabucoa77]

Feb 1st. There was a lot of action today. They are excavating towards the west side of this site

[LexD]

19 hours ago, _mtler_ said:

Just like the construction boom was behind in Montreal, and we’re living it now. Similarly shopping mall conversion/integration is on its way. Plans were proposed for Place Versailles and I bet others (eg Place Vertu) will follow suit. 

I agree that the construction boom has played its part in it, but I think poor urban planning had an equal role in the lack of mixed use developements. the greater area of Montreal has seen plenty of residential construction since the 60's..particularly off island. The construction has been mostly single family dwellings...Montreal has highest rate of urban sprawl in the country. But that's another subject. it relates to this thread because those that oppose this project do so because of the massive amount of traffic in the area….which to me is because of all the 450 residents going to and from work during rush hour.

I hope your right about other mall properties following suit. I have my doubts...in Quebec there is a club piscine mentality.

Modifié 1 février 2020 par LexD
added point.

[Yabucoa77]

Feb 2nd. More detail of what is happening on this site.

[FrancSoisD]

 

On 2020-01-28 at 11:08 PM, mont royal said:

A true democracy respects the majority view, but must avoid the tyranny of the majority by protecting the rights of the minority.

This issue cannot be solved by the majority, ie Montreal, imposing its views.

It can only be solved by honest dialogue and by achieving a satisfactory compromise.

+ 100!

On 2020-01-29 at 9:29 AM, vincenzo said:

Some comments:

1- The intersection of the 40 and 15 have been a nightmare forever. We should not stop what is the largest piece of underdeveloped land in the center of the city during one of the most impressive construction booms because the MTQ can't get it's act together;

2- You don't give a permit and then try to take it back. What message are we sending developers. I agree that we shouldn't let a TMR dictate and affect millions around it but then the government should have the courage of fixing it - and not try to undo what has been permitted; and

3- If anything, we should be pushing for a larger project similar to what has been proposed in Mississauga as the location deserves a mega project with lots of residential and lots of high rises.

1- I agree the major traffic issues have been long-lasting (i was already swearing while driving there for work outside of rush hour traffic in the early '90's!) due from faulty design in the early '60's: both Hwy 15 branches overlapping on a segment of Hwy 40 without even 1 or 2 extra lanes (!), plus the crisscrossing of the northbound traffic coming from the entrance ramp from J-T (and headed west on the 40), with traffic coming Décarie (and headed east on the 40), among other absurdities...

(I quite understand the principle of induced demand, so no need for other members to explain to me how it contributes to urban sprawl, and would reject singlehandedly most demands for highway enlargements. Albeit this "2 for 1" mess is a whole other story!)

2- I may only hope TMR will allow the residential use on this mega-site, or else harvest way less taxes, plus increase the risks the developper could face with this costly project!

On 2020-02-01 at 11:08 AM, Yabucoa77 said:

Feb 1st. There was a lot of action today. They are excavating towards the west side of this site

So, there seems to be 3 cranes on site so far, right?

On 2020-02-01 at 3:59 PM, LexD said:

I agree that the construction boom has played its part in it, but I think poor urban planning had an equal role in the lack of mixed use developements. the greater area of Montreal has seen plenty of residential construction since the 60's..particularly off island. The construction has been mostly single family dwellings...Montreal has highest rate of urban sprawl in the country. But that's another subject. it relates to this thread because those that oppose this project do so because of the massive amount of traffic in the area….which to me is because of all the 450 residents going to and from work during rush hour.

I hope your right about other mall properties following suit. I have my doubts...in Quebec there is a club piscine mentality.

+ 1 with some of your argumentation! (I don't have anymore upvotes, so i couldn't cancel that downvote...)

Greater Mtl (and beyond) still has an horrendous urban sprawl rate... However, it has started dwindling, and definitely isn't the worst in the country! This province has assuredly for the longest time lacked any unified urban densification policies, plus our Transport Ministry has since the late '50's prioritized an aggressive highway expansion program, to the detriment of public transit. This has produced the highest per capita amount of hwy kms in Canada for decades (Quebec City having once been second in NA only to Richmond, VA!), while somewhat systematically ignoring since the late '70's the high demand for heavy public transit in Mtl's central boroughs, and beyond: East and West Island, Laval, Brossard...

Up to recently, Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, Winnipeg, Halifax and others have been beating us with low density sprawl, though BC's major cities seem to have finally followed suit from Ontario's urban densification and green belt policies, namely the Greater Vancouver Area and its 2006 EcoDensity policy. Greater Mtl has finally joined the bandwagon, though timidly, with the PMAD program (page is in Fr., though an En. .PDF file may be downloaded) almost 9 years ago.

The rates of construction of single and multiple dwellings have actually recently switched in Greater Mtl, which shows the PMAD has gradually borne its fruits. Thus we've exponentialized the mixed use developments, finally. Yet we're quite late in comparison to Ontario & BC... but finally getting there in an accelerated manner (comparatively to past developments).

I definitely don't agree with your accusation regarding the 450 traffic, as there's a hefty share of 514 area commuters using private vehicles, just as there's a rapidly growing number of suburban commuters working in other 450 suburbs, therefore avoiding Mtl Island's congested bridges and hwys! The REM might change this reality, but most likely just a tad (anywhere between 0.25% to 1.5% in overall mobility), but we can't expect drastic changes because of the first and last mile issue in low density demographic areas...

In other words: suburban mobility is ever less pendular toward the good ol' Mtl downtown, but evermore peripheral, therefore creating congestion on the whole metropolitan hwy network...

As for your last phrase: that Club piscine mentality is slowly dying, but expect this transformation to accelerate with eventually rapidly growing numbers of suburbanites aspiring to live an urban lifestyle without having to endure long pendular commutes for work and other activities! Expect mini-downtowns to pop up like mushrooms around shopping malls within max 5-10 years in the whole Greater Mtl!

It's actually well started with Carref Angrignon, Carref Lvl / Centropolis, Distr Union Terreb, Dix30 / Solar, SmartCtrs Vaudreuil, and soon Fairview Pte-C, Faub Boisbriand, Galeries d'Anjou, Mail Champlain, Pl. Longueuil, Pl. Versailles, etc., and hopefully Rmt, too!

[Yabucoa77]

@FrancSoisD correct 3 cranes.