ouest-de-lîle REM - Antenne Ouest

[Brick]

Vaudreuil est drôlement en train de se densifier autour de la gare. Y ajouter le REM pourrait contribuer à réduire l'utilisation de l'automobile.

[Pylône]

Pourquoi ? S'ils ont déjà une gare ?

[Brick]

Le REM a une fréquence beaucoup plus élevée et il est en fonction entre 5 et 1 heure du matin. Et, il dessert une plus grande partie de la ville.

Modifié 18 décembre 2023 par Brick

[ToxiK]

Il y a 2 heures, Pylône a dit :

Faire traverser le REM viendrait encore favoriser l'étalement urbain. Densifions l'île de Montréal pendant les prochaines décennies.

Va dire ça au NIMBYs braillards de Pointe-Claire...

(NIMBYs et braillards, c'est pas mal synonyme ça...)

[SameGuy]

Why are we still talking about sending metros across lightyears of farmers' fields, but not to Lachine, Côte-St-Luc, Vieux-Rosemont, or Montréal-Nord? 🤦🏻‍♂️

[Rocco]

⬆️ Cuz we are led and managed by idiots, which have been voted into office by idiots? Does that make sense?

[ToxiK]

Il y a 4 heures, SameGuy a dit :

Why are we still talking about sending metros across lightyears of farmers' fields, but not to Lachine, Côte-St-Luc, Vieux-Rosemont, or Montréal-Nord? 🤦🏻‍♂️

Because you could do it for less money per person and per km by extending the REM following Autoroute 40 than it would cost to make an underground system in dense neighbourhoods.  That and because the city on Montréal refused the REM de l'Est (and te Montréal-Nord) because they didn't have the spine to stand up to NIMBYs complaining.

Ideally, we should do both the easiest goals to achieve financially and the more difficult ones, but if the emergency is to take as many cars off the road as fast as possible, reaching the suburbs (where there is less public transit options, and more car users) might yield the best results.

[SameGuy]

But it's still illogical. The actual REM will likely cost $8 billion by the time it opens, an average of $120 million per km. If we consider that more than half of it is at-grade on a preexisting alignment – essentially track replacement and electrification – we can surmise that the new sections and elevated guideway likely cost substantially more. Let's be generous and assign a cost of $250 million per km (though REM-B was initially estimated at $330 million per km for similar works); that's $3 billion to extend from Morgan to near Vaudreuil station... to serve what potential ridership??

Vaudreuil station already serves just 1500 riders a day. If we apply the theory of induced demand and suggest that a frequent, fast, metro will attract more riders, can we guess how many that might be? Would it be double (3000/day)? Would it be more than if we spent maybe one-third of that cost to instead modernize and electrify the entire exo11 Vaudreuil line, that would benefit (and attract riders from) a basin of more than half a million residents and workers?

Yet one more time: a 12 km metro over fields and woods and a lake to serve a small exurb makes no sense. 

[ToxiK]

il y a 8 minutes, SameGuy a dit :

But it's still illogical. The actual REM will likely cost $8 billion by the time it opens, an average of $120 million per km. If we consider that more than half of it is at-grade on a preexisting alignment – essentially track replacement and electrification – we can surmise that the new sections and elevated guideway likely cost substantially more. Let's be generous and assign a cost of $250 million per km (though REM-B was initially estimated at $330 million per km for similar works); that's $3 billion to extend from Morgan to near Vaudreuil station... to serve what potential ridership??

Vaudreuil station already serves just 1500 riders a day. If we apply the theory of induced demand and suggest that a frequent, fast, metro will attract more riders, can we guess how many that might be? Would it be double (3000/day)? Would it be more than if we spent maybe one-third of that cost to instead modernize and electrify the entire exo11 Vaudreuil line, that would benefit (and attract riders from) a basin of more than half a million residents and workers?

Yet one more time: a 12 km metro over fields and woods and a lake to serve a small exurb makes no sense. 

Yes, improving the suburban rail would cost less (and in this specific situation, it is probably the best option).  We should turn it into a RER system and improve all stations.  It would not only serve Vaudreuil, but also every other neighbourhoods along the rail line.  However, the operating costs of a train is higher than a REM.

Vaudreuil might be small, but they make very good efforts for densification, sometime more than places on the island of Montréal.  I'd rather pay for a better structuring public transit service in a place that makes densification efforts than another one where the NIMBYs rule the day.

Population is not the only factor to consider when building transit, we want to know how many drivers can or would switch to public transit.  If we build a transit system in a denser neighbourhood which already has a high percentage of transit users, the room for improving those numbers is small.  But a less dense neighbourhood (like in the suburbs) without good transit access might see a higher percentage of drivers willing to switch to public transit (but that cannot do it now because there are no options).  If the goal is to get cars off the road, then the second option might be the better one.  It is unfair to the already loyal transit users in denser neighbourhoods, but it is how you grow your market (think when banks or cable companies give better conditions to new customers).  In a perfect world, we would do both: grow the market and improve service for present customers.  But if the emergency is to get cars off the road, we need to get them out from where they are now, and we dont do that by turning car lines into bicycle paths.

[Brick]

Et, je répète, le REM offre plus de destinations dans l'ouest de l'ile, à Laval, vers Dorval, au nord et au sud de la montagne et finalement vers la rive-sud. Le train s'arrête à Lucien-L'Allier et il roule sur les rails du CN ou du CP.