mercier-hochelaga-maisonneuve Stade Olympique et site adjacent - Discussion générale

[ToxiK]

Toxik you are going all over the place. Kay firstly lives in Montreal, so how anti-Quebec could she be, paying those damn taxes in this backward place

 

She also was giving plaudits to the Quebec government for the "niqab bill" just recently, so I don't see any reason that she would be "knee-jerk" anti-Quebec.

 

The National Post is the best newspaper, just buy a copy and look how nicely the pages are laid out, sorry nobody else can compete. It's sexy. Except maybe La Presse but it is full of liberal hippy crap writing (with the occasional good opinion)

 

I think one of the major problems in Quebec society is this kind of paranoia / low self-esteem that the majority appear to possess. Everyone is against Quebec, Quebec drivers are the worst drivers, nobody is going to speak French in 5 years even though it lasted 200 years in a English colony/dominion... I don't know where the hell it comes from but like any individual that has such a mental arrangement, it is self-harming. The government feeds on it though, nobody worries about taxes or the major debt problems, being a have-not province, horrible competitivity, bad business climate, people fleeing the province, no it is only stupid veils or Anglos, etc. It is a very efficient diversion for the P(L)Q. We are very close to Greek levels of debt but nobody sees the iceberg. In 1970 there was not one penny of debt in Quebec!

 

You can definitely say that conservatives would not like the situation that Quebec is currently in. Which is just because the province is being run in a manner that is anything except conservative, literally being an "esti de BS"...

 

 

 

That's the thing, they have all gone Molson Stadium, Bell Centre, "Quartier des Spectacles", even the Dix30 is taking events away... It would be a decent place for say the Impact to play but they have their own thing too...

 

All right...

 

Barbara Kay lives in Québec so she can't be anti-Québec? Howard Galganov lived in Québec for a long time, and if he was not anti-Québec (or at least anti-Québécois), well... There are Anglophones who lives in Québec (not the majority, not even close, but we should not ignore them) and who isolate themselves as much as they can in the West Island dreaming of the good old days when Montréal was dominated by English and French was almost invisible. You can live in Québec and still be anti-Québec just as much as you can live in the United States and be anti-American.

 

As for applauding the "Niquab Bill", she had the choice on being in favour of a Québec bill or in favour of fundamentalist Muslims. She chose the lesser evil. And among conservatives, there is no bigger evil then fundamentalist Muslims (not that I want to overlook that threat, but for me all kind on fundamentalisms is a threat).

 

I am not putting down the National Post but I disagree with some of the opinions that they publish. We are in a democracy; everyone had the right to their opinions. If the National Post was to suddenly change it opinions to be more like the NDP, would you still think its pages are so nicely laid out...

 

There are many people in Canada that don't like Québec, it is not always paranoia, it is a fact. The separatist movement did nothing to improve the opinion of the Rest of Canada. Some Canadian don't like French ant think they are paying too much for bilinguism (I think some of them are still wondering why we haven't seen the light and switch to English like “the rest of the world did”...). Others don't like the fact that we usually are more socially on the left. And others, probably liberals, don't like the fact that we don't share their dream of a Canadian Nation from sea to sea, with strong "national" institutions and more power centralized at the federal level. For many, we are the piece of corn stuck in their teeth. No one likes those grains of corn... I am not saying that all Canada hates Québec, but there are a lot of Canadians who don't like us, and some of them are very vocal about it.

[JFrosty]

6 months? I was on Pie-IX for some reason... anyway even the woman I dated who lived there told me how "rough" it was, LOL

 

I've been there for two years. It isn't as crappy or rough as people would like to believe.

[ToxiK]

That's the thing, they have all gone Molson Stadium, Bell Centre, "Quartier des Spectacles", even the Dix30 is taking events away ("Cavalia" they are doing now according to a ad on a bus today... what is that, a dog and pony show without the dog? LOL)... It would be a decent place for say the Impact to play but they have their own thing too...

 

Without the Olympic Stadium, many concerts wouldn't be showed in Montréal anymore. The Palais des congrès can hold many expositions, but the Stadium (with a roof) could hold bigger expositions and could be complementary to the Palais des congrès. The Alouettes play a game every year in the Stadium, and the impact hosted some games there too. Their regular stadiums, even if they very good for their regular games, are too small for big, profitable events. And don’t expect to hold the Grey Cup at Molson Stadium. And there are other events, like the Super Motocross, that rent the Stadium. I suppose other places could hold those events, but probably not as well as the Olympic Stadium.

 

You would probably be saying that even with a retractable roof, all those events would count for what, about 20-30 days year? True! That just means that we have to use our imagination and find ways to fill the 330-340 days remaining (that if we want a 100% use of the Stadium). Without the Stadium, we can forget hosting events like the Commonwealth Games of the Pan American games like Toronto will be hosting in 2015 (well technically Hamilton, but we all know which city will get most of the glory...). Well managed, the Olympic Stadium can be a great asset to the city.

 

By the way, what are you suggesting should be put at the site of the Olympic Stadium if it is demolished? If you pay 700 millions dollars for its destruction, you surely won’t let the site empty.

[Cyrus]

 

There are many people in Canada that don't like Québec, it is not always paranoia, it is a fact. The separatist movement did nothing to improve the opinion of the Rest of Canada. Some Canadian don't like French ant think they are paying too much for bilinguism (I think some of them are still wondering why we haven't seen the light and switch to English like “the rest of the world did”...). Others don't like the fact that we usually are more socially on the left. And others, probably liberals, don't like the fact that we don't share their dream of a Canadian Nation from sea to sea, with strong "national" institutions and more power centralized at the federal level. For many, we are the piece of corn stuck in their teeth. No one likes those grains of corn... I am not saying that all Canada hates Québec, but there are a lot of Canadians who don't like us, and some of them are very vocal about it.

 

Conservatives should love seperatists though, decentralization and devolution of powers to lower (and theoretically more capable) levels of government is very conservative Of course, remember the old Mulroney days when the Qc nationalists (Bouchard et al, even Charest), regular tories and Western people were in one party... that sure blew up BIG TIME in '93! Hahaha.

 

A lot of the dislike for Quebec stems from a lot of issues that should simply not be there... example, Albertans are pissed because of "equalization". Every Albertan man, woman and child spent 5 700$ last year on equalization, half of which went to Qc, and that paid for better services (lower tuition rates, etc) for Quebecers than Albertans get themselves! Different opinions won't make hate, but if you are throwing more money into "a hole" than you are for your car... There is the "oil" but Quebec gets comparable money from Hydro as Alberta does from royalties...

 

 

You would probably be saying that even with a retractable roof, all those events would count for what, about 20-30 days year? True! That just means that we have to use our imagination and find ways to fill the 330-340 days remaining (that if we want a 100% use of the Stadium). Without the Stadium, we can forget hosting events like the Commonwealth Games of the Pan American games like Toronto will be hosting in 2015 (well technically Hamilton, but we all know which city will get most of the glory...). Well managed, the Olympic Stadium can be a great asset to the city.

 

By the way, what are you suggesting should be put at the site of the Olympic Stadium if it is demolished? If you pay 700 millions dollars for its destruction, you surely won’t let the site empty.

 

I have absolutely no problem with the Stadium, or would even like it, if simply there was enough money from renting the Stadium that paid the maintenance of the Stadium... this would be perfect

 

To demolish it sounds unnecessary, replacing the white elephant with a brown hole and spending money sucks. If it was downtown the land would be developed immediately but out there it would probably take a long time. And probably end up spending 700 M$ to demolish and sell the land for $1, knowing how things go

 

In one of my previous posts I mentioned perhaps building a residential tower right in the middle through the roof and keeping the Stadium like the little inner tubes kids go swimming with not to drown If I was running the RIO I'd offer the lands and area to a developer to do something, but "preserving the general architecture" and for payment, say 1/4 or 1/5 of the value of the units when they have been sold... if nobody bites, then it is probably a stupid idea

 

Or just abandon it and have urban ruins

 

I've been there for two years. It isn't as crappy or rough as people would like to believe.

 

I've been in the neighborhood countless times without any actual issues... I actually kind of preferred it when the Auto Show was there or other events because I would go and park on the streets in the area, though of course on Auto Show week there was not a lot of parking to be found... still it was better than the current situation at the Palais. I have no stories about the place like when an acquaintance was walking down Walkley St in NDG from the bus stop and a man told her "not a nice night for a walk missy", she "quickened her pace" and heard some gunshots as she turned the corner... but that area is the crappy part of NDG

Modifié 6 juillet 2010 par Cyrus

[pedepy]

The biggest problem with the Stadium is there is nobody to go there. Expos left, the Auto Show got the hell out of there after the roof collapsed in '99 and is now at the Palais des Congres, the trade shows mostly go to the Palais and the Alouettes are at their own place, hockey will never be there... Montreal is full of stadiums and exposition halls and now with the Quartier des Spectacles, the handful of concerts and other things at the Stadium will never return.

 

it was never meant to be a venue for trade shows or music concerts anyway. it sucks badly at either one of those, and stubbornly trying to make this stadium into what it's not as been the main cause for all of the ridiculous spending of the past 20 years.

 

It really is the definition of a white elephant (and increasingly so) even if its architecture is amusing. The public debt of the Province is over 221 billion dollars and counting quick. Putting more borrowed money into a big hole is insane.

 

it might hurt to have to invest even more funds into it, but if this is what it takes to eventually be able to return a profit from it, then so be it. unless you'd rather pay to maintain it for a handful of events a year forever ?

 

It might be interesting to remove the roof, and build a suitably shaped condo tower in the middle coming right out, and using the stadium seating area as some kind of other purpose (circular shopping-mall ring?). Might want to build it to meet the existing roof-support tower and use it as a belvedere as it is currently. The parking garages would probably be sufficient for the housing and for the retail purposes so you wouldn't need to do much basement to the building (which might be difficult because of the metro line).

 

a circular shopping mall ? .. aside from what i think about shopping malls in general, you're again trying to make it into something it's not. you're basically asking for trouble.

 

But the fact remains it is in a crappy neighborhood that is a PITA to get to from any point in the region (unless you are at a metro station, and even then, it is a long trip) and that would limit the appeal of expensive housing units...

 

i grew up in this 'crappy neighborhood', one that is actually very well located within the city, making it one of the most heavily gentrified parts of montreal in this last decade. a good 80% (if not more?) of this city's population is within a 10 minutes drive from the stadium, or 15 to 20 minute subway ride (or much less). alot of major league baseball ballparks can't even begin to boast that - as do alot of nfl and nhl venues also. so let it be said for the last f'in time: there's nothing wrong with where the olympic stadium is located. period.

 

Alternatively, we could simply dissolve the RIO and attempt to auction off the building. This would likely not be very successful. An option could be to simply abandon the building, and consequently we can give Montreal a true "Coliseum". It could be very profitable in 500 years

 

i've always liked the idea of putting that thing up for sale. but you'll probably get a much better price if you fix some of the bigger problems first. with some kind of 99 years contract prohibiting it's destruction, you could just hand it out at a bargain for someone who'd have a use for it - like an nfl owner ?

 

about turning it into ruins: interesting idea, but you know, yea.. ...

 

The problem there would be of course the winter fact. Concrete isn't so bad for winter and we can forget about the stadium and just leave it on blocks, but if you make nice seats and "warm materials" they will probably degrade rapidly. Ever leave something made of particle board outside? LOL

 

last i checked snow wasn't that corrosive; you could just cover up the sensitive elements individually rather then try to cover the whole stadium with a gigantic piece of shit fabric roof... ..

 

 

cyrus: those "gunshots" were probably just a bunch of farting birds. some people just seem to hear gun shots every night in this city ? ... funny how no one ever gets hit!

Modifié 6 juillet 2010 par pedepy

[TomOfBoston]

I think of Olympic Stadium as an enormous piece of urban sculpture. It is quite impressive at night when it is illuminated.

 

Maybe Montreal can get grants from the Arts Council to replace the roof! LOL

[MTLskyline]

i grew up in this 'crappy neighborhood', one that is actually very well located within the city, making it one of the most heavily gentrified parts of montreal in this last decade. a good 80% (if not more?) of this city's population is within a 10 minutes drive from the stadium, or 15 to 20 minute subway ride (or much less). alot of major league baseball ballparks can't even begin to boast that - as do alot of nfl and nhl venues also. so let it be said for the last f'in time: there's nothing wrong with where the olympic stadium is located. period.

I don't think the problem with Olympic Stadium's location was lack of people nearby. It was the lack of baseball fans nearby. When I was a kid, I played baseball for Brossard against teams from NDG (baseball is huge there), Verdun, Villeray, Greenfield Park, La Prairie, St-Constant, Chateauguay, Kahnawake, Valleyfield, St-Jean-sur Richelieu, Victoriaville and La Plaine. Notice that most of the teams were based west (or south) of the downtown core. It would have made more sense to build a stadium closer to where the actual fan base resided. A good spot probably would have been either the TechnoParc, the Turcot Yards or anywhere in the western part of downtown. (even where Cavendish Mall isn't so bad if the metro were to be extended to that location). Similarly, the Impact is nearer to its fan base in its current location than it would be if it were in the west end of the city.

[Cyrus]

(even where Cavendish Mall isn't so bad if the metro were to be extended to that location).

 

Don't forget of course one of the most inane non-debates about Montreal transport issues, actually connecting both ends of Cavendish

[pedepy]

i just can't buy this either ... there were expos fans throughout the city, and even, all the way into ontario, vermont and upstate new york, not to mention the rest of quebec and most of canada for a time. .. the latter might not have been able to get to the stadium within an hour's drive, but the 5 or so million people living within 90 minutes of the city easily could.

 

you may be right about baseball being more popular in the west end then elsewhere, but if you've read a few of my previous posts on the matter, you'd know how i really don't think it's relevant at all: they could've been playing cricket for all we care, it would've been the same.

 

after all that's happened to our mlb franchise, and with the rich hockey history we've been blessed with, it's easy to forget how popular the expos once were. they didn't call them nos amours for nothing. at some point in the late 90s and to this date, baseball somehow became taboo in montreal, making it hard to believe that it too enjoyed a storied past in this city, dating back almost to the early days of the major leagues themselves.. ..

 

 

but anyway, to get back on topic, we're really just at the point of choosing between the lesser of evils; whether we destroy it, renovate it to a better sports venue, or change it to some .. whatever it is that some people want to change it to, we're face with a huge bill. hell, if we do nothing we face a potentially huge one, too. in my opinion, if the government is willing to lend a half a billion dollars for a new permanent roof, it might as well be just as willing to invest a similar amount in renovating it, or even build a brand new facility in an area that will please more taxpayers ....

 

i just feel like so little needs to be done to get so much in return from this stadium ... someone just needs to show a little faith in this city and it's sports fans .... for a change ...

[acpnc]

Je suis toujours étonné de tout ce bavardage inutile sur la démolition hypothétique du stade olympique comme si cela était une option sérieuse du gouvernement. Il me semble que tout a déjà été dit sur le sujet et ce n'est pas une opinion de l'extérieur, et surtout pas venant du National Post, qui fera la différence dans la réflexion des décideurs.

 

Nous avons dépensé une fortune pour le payer et personne ayant un peu de logique économique ne penserait à le faire disparaitre en dépensant presqu'autant pour le démolir. Surtout qu'il faudrait emprunter et financer cette somme astronomique sur plusieurs décennies, le tout pour obtenir une montagne de gravât?

 

:eek:Hallucinant!!!!!

 

Que le stade soit aimé ou honni est une affaire personnelle et n'engage en rien les responsables à prendre une décision quant à son sort pour de pures questions émotionnelles. Seul le pragmatisme doit primer dans ce dossier.

 

Ironiquement nous n'aurions même pas le budget pour en disposer, puisque nous avons des priorités gouvernementales qui sont drôlement plus urgentes que d'effacer à la vue de certains, une oeuvre monumentale dont on a pas encore appris à exploiter tout le potentiel.

 

Alors messieurs-dames on respire par le nez, la population n'est pas prête à payer encore plus de taxes et d'impôts pour simplement raser un édifice qu'elle vient à peine (quelques années) de finir de payer à plus d'un milliard de dollars. Et si on met les choses en perspective, le financement annuel de la dette qu'il faudrait contracter, dépasserait largement le coût annuel de son entretien actuel.

 

En plus il faudrait ajouter ce nouvel emprunt au fardeau total d'endettement du Québec qui nuirait certainement à sa cote. Sans parler de la réputation d'incompétence économique qui entacherait le gouvernement et la risée mondiale dont on ferait les frais pour longtemps. Pensez-y un peu, dans un monde où l'endettement est devenu un véritable problème, nous québécois nous nous aurions payé le luxe de dépenser environ 2 milliards de dollars pour construire puis démolir un stade pour revenir à un immense TROU ?

 

C'est ce que j'appellerais littéralement: money pit:duh:

 

Nous avons relevé des défis bien plus grands dans notre courte histoire moderne et la rentabilité financière et sociale du parc olympique, incluant le stade, dépend uniquement de notre génie créatif et de notre sens de l'innovation. Commençons par faire la paix avec cet édifice en exorcisant les démons qui nous habitent. Nous n'avons pas le choix car si on veut le vendre comme attraction et site d'événements majeurs, il faut au départ l'accepter nous-mêmes comme un outil de travail pour pouvoir en faire une juste promotion.