Le journal MÉTRO est remplacé par 24 HEURES

[MTLskyline]

I watched your 8 minute long video and this "debunking" is almost laughably bad. It's full of holes, logical fallacies and charts with no sources or references.

It wasn't meant to debunk all the arguments that the propagandists make, but it was a short little clip that shows some faults with their reasoning (and it shows that there is nowhere near a consensus!).

 

The planet has been proven to be warming recently. That itself is not a myth. "Global warming", strictly speaking, is not a myth. Period.

However the extent to which the planet is warming has been grossly exaggerated, and facts have been manipulated in order to control how people live their lives. If Al Gore was really worried about the man-made affects of global warming, he would be a model of efficiency himself. He is not. He house consumes a huge amount of power, he flies all over the place on private jets to give conferences, etc

However, what *is* debatable is: a) the cause of the warming, and b) whether or not we should actually care / whether or not it'll really affect us much / whether or not we're all doomed as a result

 

My evaluation of the evidence tells me we're NOT doomed and that man is partly responsible although not completely. That's my estimation.

I do agree with what you're saying, this is the centre of the debate. I personally believe man is not playing a significant role in changing the climate, and we should continue about our lives as we normally would. Most of what we are seeing is either cyclical and/or related to solar activity.

 

In any case, we should be environmentally conscious because there are millions of benefits beyond possibly curbing global warming.

 

I don't know about you, but I could do happily without smog in our air and trash in our rivers. Being pro-environment should be a position that everyone takes. Can you really say you like pollution and want more of it?

I never said I was anti-environment or that I love pollution. I don't litter. I don't go out of the way to idle my car. I recycle. I don't waste things.

 

But I do think that this whole green craze is largely as a result of exaggerated, manipulated and falsified data being pushed by people who label themselves as "green". They want to take more control over our lives to reach their own ends. If they convince you everything contributes to global warming (which will lead to the end of the world), then they can control nearly every aspect of your life. They'll influence what car you buy (although maybe they will make you feel guilty about even owning one!), what food you eat (meat is not green!), all the way down to what light bulbs you're supposed to put in. Is it a coincidence that most of these "green people" happen to be left wingers? They were hoping that communism would catch on, but that failed so they're trying this instead.

 

I'm personally proud that Canada is a repeat winner of "Fossil of the Year" by environmental groups. There is nothing lax about Canadian environmental standards whatsoever. We're given that award because we are not cooperating with their agenda.

[Cataclaw]

There is a very real "green craze" like you describe, and sometimes these folks tend to exaggerate a bit with certain things, but their overall theme is still a positive one: help the environment. These people get all the attention though. They're a small minority within the liberal sphere. Most liberals are conscious of the environment but won't necessarily grow their own vegetables in the back yard and wear clothes they knit themselves out of protest either. It's like this with everything in my opinion.

 

Look at PETA. They have noble intentions, do they not? Who can disagree with the ethical treatment of animals? On paper, it's a fantastic concept everyone ought to be happy to support. Unfortunately it only takes a few overzealous types to do some illegal activities, cross some lines and taint the whole thing for everyone. A few cooky environmentalists go a little overboard and as a result anyone who cares about the environment gets labeled a tree-hugging hippy. Well that just ain't so.

[Rocco]

MTLskyline: ''I'm personally proud that Canada is a repeat winner of "Fossil of the Year" by environmental groups. There is nothing lax about Canadian environmental standards whatsoever. We're given that award because we are not cooperating with their agenda.''

 

 

Why do conservatives and/or republicans for that matter always seem to think there's an hidden agenda somewhere? Why are they always suspicious, thinking the world is against them?

Modifié 23 décembre 2010 par Rocco

[jesseps]

What a sad day for metro riders. Can we still read everything online?

[WestAust]

Instead of having the 24heures people outside handing out their paper, it will be the Metro people doing it.

 

And it will still be available in some other places like centre eaton or mcdonalds for instance

[Aurélien]

C'est-tu-moé, ou bien il y a de ces gens qui ne sont ici que pour étendre leurs idéaux politiques (et je vise en particulier certains républicains/conservateurs) ?

C'est-tu-moé, ou bien je ne les vois presque pas dans les sections parlant d'immobilier?

Est-ce que ces gens ont un quelconque intérêt pour le développement de Montréal? Parce que ce que je vois est plutôt désolant ; ces gens ne sont pas tellement présents dans les sujets concernant l'immobilier, mais par contre, ils n'hésitent pas étendre leur argumentaire puant le pessimisme à plein nez dans les autres sections. Pessimistes sur le Québec, pessimistes sur Montréal, "les autres sont meilleurs", et ici, pessimistes envers les activistes !?

 

C'était mon petit coup de gueule de la journée.

 

Ah oui, je vais à Montréal cet après-midi.

 

Bonne journée à vous.

[MTLskyline]

C'est-tu-moé, ou bien il y a de ces gens qui ne sont ici que pour étendre leurs idéaux politiques (et je vise en particulier certains républicains/conservateurs) ?

C'est-tu-moé, ou bien je ne les vois presque pas dans les sections parlant d'immobilier?

Est-ce que ces gens ont un quelconque intérêt pour le développement de Montréal? Parce que ce que je vois est plutôt désolant ; ces gens ne sont pas tellement présents dans les sujets concernant l'immobilier, mais par contre, ils n'hésitent pas étendre leur argumentaire puant le pessimisme à plein nez dans les autres sections. Pessimistes sur le Québec, pessimistes sur Montréal, "les autres sont meilleurs", et ici, pessimistes envers les activistes !?

 

C'était mon petit coup de gueule de la journée.

 

Ah oui, je vais à Montréal cet après-midi.

 

Bonne journée à vous.

 

I assume that you're talking about me. I am very present in the development section of the forum (much more so than you). Go into Under Construction/Approved/Proposals and click on replies. A list will pop up of how many posts each member left on a certain thread. You'll see MTLskyline ranks pretty high on each. I'm no Gilbert, but I have nonetheless shared quite a bit of information.

 

As for being pessimistic, I can't say that I am any more so than anyone else here. I don't think I go out of my way to rag on Montreal/Quebec. But you can't deny that the way the political spectrum is aligned here, it is hard not to be pessimistic about certain things! I do like to pick on activists, but most of the time they deserve it.

Modifié 27 décembre 2010 par MTLskyline

[MTLskyline]

Why do conservatives and/or republicans for that matter always seem to think there's an hidden agenda somewhere? Why are they always suspicious, thinking the world is against them?

Seems to me that we aren't the only ones. A lot of left-wingers think that Harper has a hidden agenda ("if he gets a majority he'll make abortion illegal, ban homosexuals, invade Iran", etc).

 

But it is hard not to see why Conservatives/Republicans think the world is against them. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see how anti-American/anti-Conservative most countries are.

[JFrosty]

I assume that you're talking about me. I am very present in the development section of the forum (much more so than you). Go into Under Construction/Approved/Proposals and click on replies. A list will pop up of how many posts each member left on a certain thread. You'll see MTLskyline ranks pretty high on each. I'm no Gilbert, but I have nonetheless shared quite a bit of information.

 

While you have a tendency to turn everything political, I don't mind it much because I know you contribute to other aspects of the board.

 

Les deux premiers exemples de personnes que Aurélien pourrait viser qui me viennent à l'esprit sont GoMontreal et mark_ac. Ils semblent être ici pour des raisons obscures qui n'ont rien à voir avec le développement urbain. 95%+ de leurs messages sont hors-sujets ou politiques.

 

Il suffit d'aller voir leurs messages pour bien comprendre.

[ToxiK]

He's also a "global warming" propagandist.

 

You are the propagandist! Using the word "myth" every time you talk about global warming just because you don't like the conclusion of scientists is propaganda in itself. I don't believe in God, but I have the respect not to use the word myth when every time I talk about religion. And what about the myth that lower taxes are better for the economy? Or the myth that Stephen Harper isn't a extremist? Or the myth that the Toronto Maple Leaf suck? (I often use the Maple Leafs as an example as a way to fight divisiveness. Despising the Leafs is something that unites us all ).

All those issues can have people finding defendable arguments for both sides (as well as much rationalization) and using the word "myth" instead of "I disagree" is borderline offensive.

 

Another thing: you have to know who is making the comments when you listen to arguments. I would not to many credits on comments about the economy from Québec Solidaire, comments about the suburbs from Projet Montréal or comments about the environment from the Republican Party.