Le maire de Montréal arrêté.

[peekay]

I agree with you that it will do this for the mark_ac's of this world but the good news is that people with a bit of intelligence and in international policy decision making will see past the sensationalism of these events. I'm sure if someone from the outside asked you to describe the people of Quebec, you would say this is a society that does not want to see the word pasta on their menu. While we all know this was an isolated event from one individual, you will grab this event and try to paint it across the entire population. That's the difference between the mark_ac's of this world and the ones with a bit of intelligence.

 

For the corruption scandal, I see this in a entirely different angle. Just do a bit of research on corruption in the world and you will quickly realized that Canada and a handful of nations, mostly Scandinavians, are the least corrupted nations in the world! When I see all these arrests of our officials, in my mind, it means that we are a society that is very serious about getting rid of corruption and that the system we put in place to prevent corruption, is actually working, officials are going down.

 

After taking out all these corrupt politicians, I can only believe that Canada, and Quebec in particular, will be the lands where governments are the least corrupted on the entire planet, we might even end up close to the top spot.

 

Thank you for the laugh. The truth is a lot of people in the US think we live in igloos. Add to that ignorance is media's frenzy for the sensational and Montreal's reputation is in the toilet. How can you fix the damage that a first page article about language "police" causes? How media spins it like a human rights violation? ( it is BTW). You can't undo it. We are fucked for that part of the ignorant world that only sees that and doesn't realize it is an isolated issue. It isn't worth the effort to try and pump some intelligence to certain people neither is it equally productive to bury our heads in the sand and shoot the messenger just because we hate that they place a mirror on us.

[roger]

I refuse to bury my head in the sand. I would like to ask my francophone colleagues on this forum - how many of them interact with colleagues from all over the world like some of us do every day.

 

The truth will set you free. So let's work on rebuilding our city.

 

could start by finding an alternative to Coderre (I'm not talking about Harel or Bergerons)

 

everyone knows that Anglo prefer to vote for a ass hole than a separatist

Modifié 24 juin 2013 par roger

[gars du new jersey]

I saw this on another forum, and I thought it might be worthwhile to post it here:

 

The Contrarian Troll.

 

A sophisticated breed, Contrarian Trolls frequent boards whose predominant opinions are contrary to their own. A forum dominated by those who support firearms and knife rights, for example, will invariably be visited by Contrarian Trolls espousing their beliefs in the benefits of gun control. It is important to distinguish between dissenters and actual Contrarian Trolls, however; the Contrarian is not categorized as a troll because of his or her dissenting opinions, but due to the manner in which he or she behaves:

 

Contrarian Warning Sign Number One: The most important indicator of a poster's Contrarian Troll status is his constant use of subtle and not-so-subtle insults, a technique intended to make people angry. Contrarians will resist the urge to be insulting at first, but as their post count increases, they become more and more abusive of those with whom they disagree. Most often they initiate the insults in the course of what has been a civil, if heated, debate to that point.

 

Contrarian Warning Sign Number Two: Constant references to the forum membership as monolithic. "You guys are all just [descriptor]." "You're a lynch mob." "You all just want to ridicule anyone who disagrees with you."

 

Contrarian Warning Sign Number Three: Intellectual dishonesty. This is only a mild indicator that is not limited to trolls, but Contrarians display it to a high degree. They will lie about things they've said, pull posts out of context in a manner that changes their meanings significantly, and generally ignore any points for which they have no ready answers.

 

Contrarian Warning Sign Number Four: Accusing the accusers. When confronted with their trolling, trolls immediately respond that it is the accusers who are trolls (see Natural Predators below). Often the Contrarian will single out his most vocal opponent and claim that while he can respect his other opponents, this one in particular is beneath his notice.

 

Contrarian Warning Sign Number Five: Attempts to condescend. Pursued by Troll Bashers (see Natural Predators below), the Contrarian will seek refuge in condescending remarks that repeatedly scorn his or her critics as beneath notice; all the while continuing to respond to them.

 

Contrarian Warning Sign Number Six: One distinctive mark of

Contrarian Trolls is that every thread in which they dissent quickly devolves into a debate about who is trolling whom. In the course of such a debate the Contrarian will display many of the other Warning Signs mentioned above.

 

 

[roger]

I will vote for Melanie Joly!

 

 

Je pense que tu ne lis pas les journaux franco, elle s'est faite démolir par tout les journaux/radio/télé. Elle doit être couché en position foetal en se moment.

 

http://blogues.lapresse.ca/avenirmtl/2013/06/20/melanie-joly-montreal-n%E2%80%99est-pas-une-marque-de-yogourt%E2%80%A6/

 

http://www.985fm.ca/audioplayer.php?mp3=180478

 

http://www.radio-canada.ca/emissions/cest_bien_meilleur_le_matin/2012-2013/archives.asp?date=2013-06-18#Audiofil

Modifié 24 juin 2013 par roger

[franktko]

I would like to ask my francophone colleagues on this forum - how many of them interact with colleagues from all over the world like some of us do every day.

 

Another pejorative remark from our friend mark. So you think the francophone people don't do international business?? What a joke you are. Any other groups (blacks or latinos) that you feel are not as competent as the good old white anglo?

[roger]

No - certain de mes amis sur ce forum sont un peu isoler de la perception de Montreal dans le monde. Donc on m'accuse d'etre un troll etc. It's a big world out there... pis chaque fois que je parle a mes colleagues a Seattle ou Paris ou Francfort ils me disent "what's happening in Montreal....."

 

Shut up, you are a troll.

[ErickMontreal]

No - certain de mes amis sur ce forum sont un peu isoler de la perception de Montreal dans le monde. Donc on m'accuse d'etre un troll etc. It's a big world out there... pis chaque fois que je parle a mes colleagues a Seattle ou Paris ou Francfort ils me disent "what's happening in Montreal....."

 

Tu as des amis? Vraiment ?

[franktko]

OK, donc ce sont juste les francophones que tu dédaignes ainsi... Normalement, j’ignore les discussions que tu as enflammées parce que, comme pour plusieurs de mes collègues sur ce forum, je te considère un troll à 100%, avec des remarques toujours négatives, souvent méprisantes, parfois quasi racistes (ta dernière sur l'incompétence internationale des francos), et presque toujours envoyées en direction des francophones qui sont d’après toi, le grand mal de Montréal et du Québec.

 

Very glad to hear that you inform people from all over the world about what is going on over here; I’m sure you’re a great ambassador for Montréal and Québec.

[acpnc]

I saw this on another forum, and I thought it might be worthwhile to post it here: I saw this on another forum, and I thought it might be worthwhile to post it here:

 

The Contrarian Troll.

 

A sophisticated breed, Contrarian Trolls frequent boards whose predominant opinions are contrary to their own. A forum dominated by those who support firearms and knife rights, for example, will invariably be visited by Contrarian Trolls espousing their beliefs in the benefits of gun control. It is important to distinguish between dissenters and actual Contrarian Trolls, however; the Contrarian is not categorized as a troll because of his or her dissenting opinions, but due to the manner in which he or she behaves:

 

Contrarian Warning Sign Number One: The most important indicator of a poster's Contrarian Troll status is his constant use of subtle and not-so-subtle insults, a technique intended to make people angry. Contrarians will resist the urge to be insulting at first, but as their post count increases, they become more and more abusive of those with whom they disagree. Most often they initiate the insults in the course of what has been a civil, if heated, debate to that point.

 

Contrarian Warning Sign Number Two: Constant references to the forum membership as monolithic. "You guys are all just [descriptor]." "You're a lynch mob." "You all just want to ridicule anyone who disagrees with you."

 

Contrarian Warning Sign Number Three: Intellectual dishonesty. This is only a mild indicator that is not limited to trolls, but Contrarians display it to a high degree. They will lie about things they've said, pull posts out of context in a manner that changes their meanings significantly, and generally ignore any points for which they have no ready answers.

 

Contrarian Warning Sign Number Four: Accusing the accusers. When confronted with their trolling, trolls immediately respond that it is the accusers who are trolls (see Natural Predators below). Often the Contrarian will single out his most vocal opponent and claim that while he can respect his other opponents, this one in particular is beneath his notice.

 

Contrarian Warning Sign Number Five: Attempts to condescend. Pursued by Troll Bashers (see Natural Predators below), the Contrarian will seek refuge in condescending remarks that repeatedly scorn his or her critics as beneath notice; all the while continuing to respond to them.

 

Contrarian Warning Sign Number Six: One distinctive mark of

Contrarian Trolls is that every thread in which they dissent quickly devolves into a debate about who is trolling whom. In the course of such a debate the Contrarian will display many of the other Warning Signs mentioned above.

 

 

Je connais une personne sur ce forum qui correspond totalement à cette description...

[AFS]

The roots of corruption in a society are pretty diverse. It can be due to greed obviously, but also fear (plenty of Charbanneau Commision witness tell of being intimidated), laziness (why work hard to earn money when it's easier to cheat and steal it), power imbalances in the population (this is less common is Quebec, but think of police officers letting you off the hook for bribes in some 3rd world countries). It can also be due to lack of pride, as in I'd rather do all I can for personal gain, even at the expense of my common society.

 

I think what has made the issue of corruption in Quebec finally come to the forefront, is that the inevitable results are very visible to everyone. Construction companies collude to rig contract bids and then inflate the prices, so we pay more and get worse products. Everyone can see that our roads crumble year after year, our water system is archaic, clear irregularities in land use and zonage changes, etc etc.... I think this exercise we are going through with the commission is excellent. It's hard to hear sometimes how we have been so taken by people we place trust in, and it definitely breeds intense cynicism towards politicians. But the end result could be very worthwhile. I'd actually like to hear how some of the forumers here think we can deal with some of these issues that have come out. Let's keep it specific to our Quebec reality.

 

I'll get the ball rolling...

 

 

1. Construction projects should be open to bids from other provinces, perhaps for large projects even other countries. I understand it is desirable to keep the work as local as possible, but what this will do is force companies to be more competitive and more honest. "Mr. Sidewalk" was able to intimidate other local competitors because of his reputation and because they were too small and he was too connected. I doubt he could have the same pull if the bids came from across Canada. This doesn't mean that local companies would lose out, it would mean they would have to innovate within their own business t be able to offer the most competitive bids, or better service or product. This should translate into better quality for less money.

 

2. The penalties for shoddy work should be severe. It is unbelievable that the same stretches of road are repaired year after year. When I go to the dentist for a filling, if it breaks a year later he replaces it for free. There should be a database at city hall that tracts which companies did what work and when, and if the work fails and they refuse to service it, this should be noted the next time they bid on projects. This could be added an a negative during the bid process.

 

3. Revise the way civil servants are paid. My wife works for a government agency. They get a cost of living increase in salary every year, but bonuses are practically unheard of. This might seem strange considering these people get good benefits that some non-government employees can only dream about, but if there is no incentive to do well in your job, then you start doing the minimum you can to get by and look for easy payoffs. I don't paint them all with the same brush, and yes there are some excellent civil servants. But who do you think would work harder: A city engineer who knows that if he finishes all his inspections on time and on budget, he will receive a 10% bonus on top of cost of living salary increase, or an engineer who knows that no matter if he works hard or not, there is no difference in his wages? I really believe that an incentive based approach would increase workers pride in their work and allow them to earn more based on performance. These two factors alone can decrease the desire to cheat the system through corruption. And I also believe that it would in the long run save the city money.

 

 

I'll stop at three. I'd also like to point out that in the 1970's NYC was crime infested, nearly bankrupt, much more corrupt and Mafia controlled than we are now. For them, a strong mayor with strong ideas turned the city around. It's not a one size fits all approach and what they did may not be what we need to do, but it just proves that things can change drastically for the better.