ville-marie OCPM : Ancien Hôpital Royal Victoria et de l’Institut Allan Memorial

[mcgill101]

It makes perfect sense for McGill to acquire the RVH - and they should get it for free. As a student of the university, I have seen firsthand the issue of lack of space at McGill. Taking up floors of an office tower is hardly a solution - McGill not only needs offices, but laboratories, modern teaching facilities, libraries, and common areas. To an outsider, the campus may seem enormous. But when you factor in the shear size of the student body and faculty, it is quite dense.

A one billion dollar price tag for a new campus may be an insane amount of money, especially considering the state of the municipal/provincial economy. However, an investment in a world-class educational institute like McGill is exactly the type of investment that the government should be making. Highly skilled graduates that come out of McGill who chose to stay in Montreal will undoubtedly contribute to the local economy. Moreover, the refurbishment of the RVH is going to carry a heavy price tag regardless of who takes it over. Seeing as it has to serve the public, I can't see any better form of investment than one in an educational institution. On top of that, McGill's plan would make the RVH site a true landmark for the city, with increased green space, better access to the mountain, decreased congestion and fewer industrial buildings.

If you ask me, it's at the top of the list of urban renewal plans that have been presented for Montreal in a long time.

[acpnc]

It makes perfect sense for McGill to acquire the RVH - and they should get it for free. As a student of the university, I have seen firsthand the issue of lack of space at McGill. Taking up floors of an office tower is hardly a solution - McGill not only needs offices, but laboratories, modern teaching facilities, libraries, and common areas. To an outsider, the campus may seem enormous. But when you factor in the shear size of the student body and faculty, it is quite dense.

A one billion dollar price tag for a new campus may be an insane amount of money, especially considering the state of the municipal/provincial economy. However, an investment in a world-class educational institute like McGill is exactly the type of investment that the government should be making. Highly skilled graduates that come out of McGill who chose to stay in Montreal will undoubtedly contribute to the local economy. Moreover, the refurbishment of the RVH is going to carry a heavy price tag regardless of who takes it over. Seeing as it has to serve the public, I can't see any better form of investment than one in an educational institution. On top of that, McGill's plan would make the RVH site a true landmark for the city, with increased green space, better access to the mountain, decreased congestion and fewer industrial buildings.

If you ask me, it's at the top of the list of urban renewal plans that have been presented for Montreal in a long time.

 

What you say makes sense. We'll see further down the road what the final government report says. Since it's a very complex issue, any mistake could be very costly. So we have to take all the time necessary, in order to take the best decision for a win win conclusion.

[brightlightsbigcity]

It makes perfect sense for McGill to acquire the RVH - and they should get it for free. As a student of the university, I have seen firsthand the issue of lack of space at McGill. Taking up floors of an office tower is hardly a solution - McGill not only needs offices, but laboratories, modern teaching facilities, libraries, and common areas. To an outsider, the campus may seem enormous. But when you factor in the shear size of the student body and faculty, it is quite dense.

A one billion dollar price tag for a new campus may be an insane amount of money, especially considering the state of the municipal/provincial economy. However, an investment in a world-class educational institute like McGill is exactly the type of investment that the government should be making. Highly skilled graduates that come out of McGill who chose to stay in Montreal will undoubtedly contribute to the local economy. Moreover, the refurbishment of the RVH is going to carry a heavy price tag regardless of who takes it over. Seeing as it has to serve the public, I can't see any better form of investment than one in an educational institution. On top of that, McGill's plan would make the RVH site a true landmark for the city, with increased green space, better access to the mountain, decreased congestion and fewer industrial buildings.

If you ask me, it's at the top of the list of urban renewal plans that have been presented for Montreal in a long time.

 

I'm not saying it's a bad project per se. I'm not saying McGill shouldn't get it for $0. And I agree that the prov. gov should support McGill financially to some extent if they have some infrastructure needs. But to say that they "need" a $1 billion, 700,000 sq. ft. monument is an exaggeration IMO. Remember as a kid when you tried to convince your parents that you "needed" something using all kinds of outlandish excuses? It seems like McGill is trying to do the same thing here. Perhaps a smaller version of the project (both in size and cost) is in order. One billion dollars is a lot of money! That's roughly $1,500 per sq. ft.!

 

As for the offices - I am aware that they also need classrooms and laboratories, but that doesn't change the fact that they claim to need 200k sq. ft. of office space, and 2200 McGill College could certainly alleviate more than half of that need (when the 2-3 remaining tenants move out). If they truly have such a chronic space deficit, it's quite puzzling that they don't take what's already there for the taking. And it's reasonable to assume that you could probably buy 2200 MC for somewhere in the neighborhood of $300 a foot. Seems like a much more sensible option if you have an urgent "need" for space - vs. a "want" for a trophy property.

[IluvMTL]

So what do you suggest we do with this complex? I haven't heard of any other institutional projects that could adapt, occupy and prevent the RVH buildings from being destroyed,.

 

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[acpnc]

Il est clair que dans les circonstances, peu d'institutions publiques ou privées, trouveraient intérêt à rénover à grand frais, pour ensuite pouvoir s'y installer, un ensemble immobilier actuellement décrépi et aux contraintes physiques multiples. Royal Vic a déjà un lien direct avec McGill et fait partie du périmètre immédiat du campus universitaire.

 

Il est évident aussi que le gouvernement aura à dépenser des millions pour assurer la survie des édifices historiques à préserver et cela indépendamment du scénario. On connait aussi les difficultés qu'a notamment rencontrées l'Université de Montréal avec certains immeubles institutionnels sur la montagne, dont elle a décidé de se départir après achat, parce qu'il devenait prohibitif de les rénover selon son budget en regard aux normes actuelles. Cela dit c'est presqu'une aubaine de trouver un occupant qui s'intéresse véritablement à ce vieille hôpital et qui souhaite l'intégrer à ses besoins d'expansion future.

 

Cependant on sait que les coûts de rénovations ne seront pas moindre pour McGill que l'UdM, en conséquence c'est un véritable défi qu'elle se lance. Elle devra donc être accompagnée rigoureusement afin de faciliter le plus possible le dispendieux changement de vocation des lieux et la mise aux normes des nombreuses constructions à transformer. Puisque le gouvernement souhaitait conserver ce complexe dans le secteur institutionnel, son nouveau propriétaire nous semble alors tout naturellement trouvé.

 

Il reste à espérer que le résultat des études prévues, nous disent si la faisabilité du projet McGill est réaliste et abordable, ou s'il faudra scinder les espaces par la participation d'autres intervenants ou partenaires dans le dossier.

[mcgill101]

I'm not saying it's a bad project per se. I'm not saying McGill shouldn't get it for $0. And I agree that the prov. gov should support McGill financially to some extent if they have some infrastructure needs. But to say that they "need" a $1 billion, 700,000 sq. ft. monument is an exaggeration IMO. Remember as a kid when you tried to convince your parents that you "needed" something using all kinds of outlandish excuses? It seems like McGill is trying to do the same thing here. Perhaps a smaller version of the project (both in size and cost) is in order. One billion dollars is a lot of money! That's roughly $1,500 per sq. ft.!

 

As for the offices - I am aware that they also need classrooms and laboratories, but that doesn't change the fact that they claim to need 200k sq. ft. of office space, and 2200 McGill College could certainly alleviate more than half of that need (when the 2-3 remaining tenants move out). If they truly have such a chronic space deficit, it's quite puzzling that they don't take what's already there for the taking. And it's reasonable to assume that you could probably buy 2200 MC for somewhere in the neighborhood of $300 a foot. Seems like a much more sensible option if you have an urgent "need" for space - vs. a "want" for a trophy property.

 

I understand your point, but you can't really compare this to a kid wanting something using outlandish excuses. The fact that this may be a trophy property for McGill is exactly why they SHOULD go ahead with it! McGill is an international learning institution that needs to continuously attract new talent in the form of highly qualified professors, researchers, and even students from abroad. This type of innovation, a one-of-a-kind, modern campus, is the type of project that would entice people to come to Montreal for McGill alone. In order for the RVH to be refurbished to 2015 (2020?) standards, it's going to cost upwards of a billion dollars regardless of who decides to undertake the project.

[FrancSoisD]

Excellent projet à plusieurs égards (accès au mont Royal, embellissement, reverdissement, rénovation et pérennité d'occupation des immeubles)... et sérieux défi pour toutes les instances: l'université, le gouvernement provincial, voire même la ville de Mtl, qui voudront tous tirer la couverte de leur côté. Je serais agréablement surpris si l'étude se concluait en moins de 18 mois.

[mcgill]

McGill University is not under-spaced, it is over-filled. The financially responsible thing to do is slowly roll back enrollment over the next ten years, shifting towards a greater proportion of graduate students. The road to growing to nearly 40,000 students was purely a chase for revenue, unfortunately at the cost of quality. That era is thankfully over. The RVH is a pipe dream. I think in the end it will become a multi-use, multi-partner area that will benefit the whole city, including of course McGill University. It's a great opportunity for a great community project!

 

 

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[Russell]

Brightlights...mcgill already leases space in multiple office towers (550 sherbrooke, 2001 mcgill college, 1010 sherbrooke) and in only one case has an ownership stake (680 sherbrooke). Maybe the point of this exercise is that if they own rvh, they could get out of those leases saving huge operating costs over the long-term. Mcgill is not going anywhere, and the institution has a glorious history. Adding rvh to the patrimony continues that path, leasing or buying office assets is so state collegesque, mcgill aspires to be ivy league.

[brightlightsbigcity]

Brightlights...mcgill already leases space in multiple office towers (550 sherbrooke, 2001 mcgill college, 1010 sherbrooke) and in only one case has an ownership stake (680 sherbrooke). Maybe the point of this exercise is that if they own rvh, they could get out of those leases saving huge operating costs over the long-term. Mcgill is not going anywhere, and the institution has a glorious history. Adding rvh to the patrimony continues that path, leasing or buying office assets is so state collegesque, mcgill aspires to be ivy league.

 

Yes which is why buying class A office space steps from the Roddick Gates @$300 a foot makes more sense IMO than leasing the same space from IA or spending $1,500 a foot overhauling RVH. Harvard/MIT have some terrible buildings, that doesn't stop them from attracting top talent. 2200 MC isn't that bad (all in all post-modernism is less offensive than brutalism as brought to you by McGill and that terrible circular building on the mountain that looks like a nuclear power plant), plus it's on MCGILL COLLEGE which is one of Montreal's "flagship" streets and tied with the university's history. If the building isn't high profile enough for McGill and they must blow $1,500 @ foot then they can have it reclad in Jerusalem limestone or Italian travertine and install all marble everything in the lobby to satisfy their delusions of grandeur, now wouldn't that be a scandal in the making?