Parachèvement de l'Autoroute 20 (Vaudreuil-Dorion)

[jesseps]

I know my idea is crazy. I just wish back in the day they would have thought of just making both side six-lanes. I know its massive. At least we wouldn't really feel any congestion on the road and even if there was some accidents on the highway, there wouldn't be any gridlock.

 

lanes (left to right)

1 - emergency

2- 100 km/h

3 - 80 km/h

4 - carpool / bus lane / taxi

5 - 60 km/h

6 - on / off ramp for exits (you could still drive on this)

 

Thats my dream for any and all highways on and off the island. Will never happen. Seeing the engineers, planners and who ever else that developed the system here, never planned ahead!

[kylemacmac]

I know my idea is crazy. I just wish back in the day they would have thought of just making both side six-lanes. I know its massive. At least we wouldn't really feel any congestion on the road and even if there was some accidents on the highway, there wouldn't be any gridlock.

 

lanes (left to right)

1 - emergency

2- 100 km/h

3 - 80 km/h

4 - carpool / bus lane / taxi

5 - 60 km/h

6 - on / off ramp for exits (you could still drive on this)

 

Thats my dream for any and all highways on and off the island. Will never happen. Seeing the engineers, planners and who ever else that developed the system here, never planned ahead!

 

Have you ever been to Toronto? The 401 is 20 lanes out by Pearson...and it still backs up almost every day. A Highway with 3 lanes each direction is more than enough if demand is managed so that people have other options than a personal vehicle to get around.

[JCC-Fromthere]

I know my idea is crazy. I just wish back in the day they would have thought of just making both side six-lanes. I know its massive. At least we wouldn't really feel any congestion on the road and even if there was some accidents on the highway, there wouldn't be any gridlock.

 

lanes (left to right)

1 - emergency

2- 100 km/h

3 - 80 km/h

4 - carpool / bus lane / taxi

5 - 60 km/h

6 - on / off ramp for exits (you could still drive on this)

 

Thats my dream for any and all highways on and off the island. Will never happen. Seeing the engineers, planners and who ever else that developed the system here, never planned ahead!

 

It's been shown in studies over and over that more lanes create more demand though induction and in the end, you just have more lanes with the same amount of traffic.

Another example is L.A.; friggin 10 to 24 lanes wide and the worst congestion problems in the world. Meanwhile, I live in one of the densest populated area in the world and there are a few highways around my building serving one of the busiest business district in the world; never seen real congestion here on 4 lanes. But then again, 80% of transport here is done via mass transit.

 

I still don't understand how people can think that we can pave our way out of congestion; it doesn't work.

[Malek]

It does work, because routes open new opportunities that bring more business, jobs and yes more people, more people means more weight to your city... Obviously more people mean more traffic.

 

Toronto is now the manufacturing and transport hub of Canada in between other leading roles, almost every daily product is either produced or goes through at least a warehouse in Greater Toronto. Just open your cabinet and look at the adress on your products. A little drive on the 401 and look at the enterprises situated along and it's just impressive... to a lesser extent, the same can be seen along the 40 and 20.

 

If Montreal wants to stay a minor player and keep the same relative size then it's doing great in that sense.

 

Roads are more than just a place where cars run, they are the aretries of a dynamic economy.

 

And by the way, whoever said that wider highways are made to enhance fluidity is just clueless, they're done to add capacity.

[JCC-Fromthere]

It does work, because routes open new opportunities that bring more business, jobs and yes more people, more people means more weight to your city... Obviously more people mean more traffic.

 

You are not talking to my point at all; I was saying that adding lanes do not lessen congestion.

 

As for the economic impacts, there is no denying that highways did have a positive impact in geographically large countries. Now, does that mean that creating or adding to a road network is a sure way or the only way to boost the economy; no.

[Malek]

You are not talking to my point at all; I was saying that adding lanes do not lessen congestion.

 

As for the economic impacts, there is no denying that highways did have a positive impact in geographically large countries. Now, does that mean that creating or adding to a road network is a sure way or the only way to boost the economy; no.

 

Well it lighten congestion over a certain period of time, then businesses, workers and people in general adjust and use this to their own benefits

 

So yes its not a magic recipe, you don't add lanes to get more GDP... it's more complex than that, but without highways your economy is handicapped.

[JCC-Fromthere]

Well it lighten congestion over a certain period of time, then businesses, workers and people in general adjust and use this to their own benefits

 

So yes its not a magic recipe, you don't add lanes to get more GDP... it's more complex than that, but without highways your economy is handicapped.

 

Agreed.

 

However, at this moment, I would say that for Montreal, adding any additional highways or lanes would (besides for the ones that are already planned or in construction such as the 30) have close to 0 net economic benefits (which are not offset by lost opportunities).

[Malek]

I disagree.

 

You now have the 25 under construction. This will open up the east of Laval which is largely underdeveloped and unused. How that development will unfold is yet to be seen... it's hard to predict how in 20-30 years that part of greater montreal will look like, but be certain that it'll curb the sprawl in Repentigny, Mascouche and Terrebonne. Keep housing price at a reasonable levels because of increased offer. Also to be considered if some part of that land will be zoned for industry/services... time will tell, but I bet the benefits will be greater than zero.

[JCC-Fromthere]

I disagree.

 

You now have the 25 under construction. This will open up the east of Laval which is largely underdeveloped and unused. How that development will unfold is yet to be seen... it's hard to predict how in 20-30 years that part of greater montreal will look like, but be certain that it'll curb the sprawl in Repentigny, Mascouche and Terrebonne. Keep housing price at a reasonable levels because of increased offer. Also to be considered if some part of that land will be zoned for industry/services... time will tell, but I bet the benefits will be greater than zero.

 

Development that would happen regardless somewhere else (that's the opportunity cost). Unless we are talking about heavy industry, which I wouldn't think it is the way of the future for Quebec, the new economy jobs do not require a lot of land but rather require brainpower. Proximity to a source of brainpower is therefore more important. Economies of scale of having those people in the city, thereby reducing the need for new and costly infrastructures is economically more efficient. As I said, unless they are heavy industrial industries which can't really be close to population anymore.

Otherwise, publicly building infrastructure to support eventual and cheap land in exurbs for sale to industries is, as I said before, a subsidy and not a good one.

[mtlkirk]

Can someone post before and after pics of the area around vaudreuil-dorion. I just don't understand how the changes will be done, is the 20 going to be parallel to harwood, or is harwood going to be a highway?