ouest-de-lîle Station YUL-Aéroport-Montréal-Trudeau - Discussion

[WestAust]

Pour reprendre les mots d'un bientôt ex président américain

 

ADM nageait dans l'argent et avait (en partie avec raison) dans les idées de grandeur, mais n'avaient pas prévus de scénarios de crise (pas de l'ampleur actuelle j'en conviens) 

 

[SameGuy]

What Ferrari? Bizarre comment. They had requirements for a station that are unlike those for regular stations. Imagine 5000 people a day using a station, but more than half with rolling luggage? You can’t do that at a simple station with 3m platforms and simple elevators. And modernizing the airport is now considered a luxury?? Come on man. That’s stupid. I’m done.

[SameGuy]

58 minutes ago, WestAust said:

Pour reprendre les mots d'un bientôt ex président américain

 

ADM nageait dans l'argent et avait (en partie avec raison) dans les idées de grandeur, mais n'avaient pas prévus de scénarios de crise (pas de l'ampleur actuelle j'en conviens) 

 

Pas prévus, comme “jamais.” Après 9/11, le trafic a chuté par 40% pendant moins d’un an, et est revenu aux niveaux pré-9/11 dans moins de deux ans. Et le trafic a continué à augmenter pendant 18 ans. Là, le trafic a disparu. Gone. Bo-bye. Il va rester à nul pendant au moins un autre six mois (selon moi, un an), et après la distribution généralisée des vaccins, va exploser pour atteindre les niveaux records de 2019 dans peut-être trois ans.

[WestAust]

il y a 22 minutes, SameGuy a dit :

What Ferrari? Bizarre comment. They had requirements for a station that are unlike those for regular stations. Imagine 5000 people a day using a station, but more than half with rolling luggage? You can’t do that at a simple station with 3m platforms and simple elevators. And modernizing the airport is now considered a luxury?? Come on man. That’s stupid. I’m done.

The bad deal was turning down the CDPQ offer to pay for the "base" station and pay for the extras that such a station require, rather they said we'll deal completly with it, so instead of costing ADM let's say 100m$ out of a total price of a 250m$ station, they are now commited to paying the full 250m$ which now they can't

 

[SameGuy]

One last time: ADM isn’t asking for a subsidy, they are requesting a loan. It’s not rocket surgery.

[SameGuy]

1 minute ago, WestAust said:

The bad deal was turning down the CDPQ offer to pay for the "base" station and pay for the extras that such a station require, rather they said we'll deal completly with it, so instead of costing ADM let's say 100m$ out of a total price of a 250m$ station, they are now commited to paying the full 250m$ which now they can't

 

I don’t disagree with this point. I wasn’t part of the discussions, but as mentioned above, they were indeed “swimming in money” and could have easily weathered any normal cyclical downturn (9/11, 2009 WFC, etc). The US was headed for a recession before the first cases of CoViD-19 were diagnosed, which likely would’ve softened global air travel.

My beef is with describing modernizing the airport as a “luxury,” and not a necessity. That’s silly. So Turcot, 720, SdC, these were all unnecessary luxuries? Yet this same government is plowing ahead with a plan to spend $500 million to replace the Big Owe roof yet again, and is pushing to spend another Billion to host three (THREE!) FIFA 2026 World Cup games, likely featuring France, a CAF side, and a Middle-Eastern representative from the AFC. 

[Enalung]

15 minutes ago, SameGuy said:

One last time: ADM isn’t asking for a subsidy, they are requesting a loan. It’s not rocket surgery.

Right... It's not like we haven't seen a "loan" being forgiven, or transformed into subsidies after the fact.

[SameGuy]

That is neither here nor there; business isn’t conducted on prejudices and suppositions that only belong on the opinion pages of a Peladeau tabloid.

[Enalung]

44 minutes ago, SameGuy said:

That is neither here nor there; business isn’t conducted on prejudices and suppositions that only belong on the opinion pages of a Peladeau tabloid.

You obviously have more faith in humanity then I do. Then again, a decade ago, I had a friend who was rather cynical. Although I do like to think of myself as more of a realist I definitely do have that cynical side. If anything, I do agree that opening of airport charter can be part of the solution. As has been pointed out numerous times on this thread and other treads, airports have projects that they would like to build. Put it to the market. Is this something that the market would bankroll? Is this something that the market believes could recoup it's costs? The cynical side of me says that the government should not be putting itself in a position where it might end up forgiving those loans. It might be that the market agrees with ADM that this is a reasonable expense. It could also be that the market decides that the expense is above and beyond what can be justified and that ADM has to scale back it's plans. Putting it to the market would resolve that question in a far more constructive way then this debate.

[SameGuy]

Well if it were up to ADM, the station would be where it was already built under the transborder jetty and Marriott hotel, and the line would exit to the south and head to the A20 alignment straight downtown. The cost to finish the original station would be almost inconsequential. The new station, 40 metres below ground in the middle of the existing parking structure, was forced upon ADM by the CDPQ, and resulted in ADM  devising the full-scale modernization of the ground transportation and land-side facilities to accommodate this new, imposed station location.