ouest-de-lîle Station YUL-Aéroport-Montréal-Trudeau - Discussion

[SameGuy]

11 minutes ago, Enalung said:

What I find ironic about this argument is the fact that there are plenty of precedents on a global level for corporations paying for the cost of a transit station. Devimco or Cominar paying for a station does not sound all that farfetched to me. Corporations do this as a statement, to get their colors into the station and show that they are prosperous. If anything, the fact that we aren't there yet shows that Montreal still has a ways to go. That 200 meter artificial limit on skyscraper in Montreal really needs to be repealed.

Agree. But those corporations choose to do that for reasons. But in this case, the Québec government gave the Caisse a mandate to build rapid transit to the airport and to Brossard over the new bridge. Imagine if the government then tried to force Devimco or RioCan to pay for the station in Brossard. The airport has been asking for a rapid rail link for decades, and built a station in 2006-2009 under the transborder jetty in anticipation. The Caisse got the mandate but told ADM they won’t be using that station infra and must build a deeper, more technically difficult station 35 m below an existing structure, at an estimated $150 million cost. ADM was indeed “swimming in money” in 2016 and agreed to take on the costs in conjunction with a major redevelopment of the airport. That seemed logical at the time and seems logical now. ADM hasn’t been begging for a subsidy, just favourable loan guarantees to complete the station while putting the major redevelopment on hold. The station will still be part of a transit system designed to serve the entire metro area and will contribute to the city, regional and provincial economies

6 minutes ago, Nameless_1 said:

ADM Aéroport de Montréal est sous un bail de transport Canada. La moindre des choses est qu'il en finance le développement.

Aéroports de Montréal (ADM) est une société à but non lucratif et sans capital-actions, responsable de la gestion, de l'exploitation et du développement de l'aéroport international Pierre-Elliott-Trudeau de Montréal (autrefois Aéroport international de Montréal-Dorval) et de l'aéroport international Montréal-Mirabel en vertu d'un bail d'une durée de 60 ans conclu avec Transports Canada en 1992. ADM a son siège dans la Place Leigh-Capreol à Dorval.

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aéroports_de_Montréal

🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️
 

Personne, mais personne, ne dit rien au contraire. 

[Enalung]

13 minutes ago, SameGuy said:

Agree. But those corporations choose to do that for reasons. But in this case, the Québec government gave the Caisse a mandate to build rapid transit to the airport and to Brossard over the new bridge. Imagine if the government then tried to force Devimco or RioCan to pay for the station in Brossard. The airport has been asking for a rapid rail link for decades, and built a station in 2006-2009 under the transborder jetty in anticipation. The Caisse got the mandate but told ADM they won’t be using that station infra and must build a deeper, more technically difficult station 35 m below an existing structure, at an estimated $150 million cost. ADM was indeed “swimming in money” in 2016 and agreed to take on the costs in conjunction with a major redevelopment of the airport. That seemed logical at the time and seems logical now. ADM hasn’t been begging for a subsidy, just favourable loan guarantees to complete the station while putting the major redevelopment on hold. The station will still be part of a transit system designed to serve the entire metro area and will contribute to the city, regional and provincial economies

From my perspective, corporations have every reason to provide funding when they benefit from what is being built in one form or another. At a bare minimum, they could have gone and had a talk with them. Did we pay for the overpass to their project on either side of the highway? If anything, I would have tried to negotiate funding for those since it will most definitely benefit them. Like many, I fully expect the cinema to get demolished and get replaced with something else. Did CDPQ pay for the commercial spaces where the tunnels are set to exit at McGill? I could be wrong, but I'm under the impression that if anything, the commercial center should be happy to provide since it will benefit massively from having that station right next to it. It's a case of nudge nudge. It just makes sense and it makes you look good. You should never leave money on the table.

Also, if anything, I'm arguing that ADM paying for the station isn't something that should be the exception, but rather something that should be considered normal. As I've said in another post, airports need to be able to borrow money from the private sector. I do fully agree with everyone who said that air traffic would pick back up once the crisis is over. I think it's a rather safe bet for anyone who would be willing to provide them with a loan that they would get repaid.

[SameGuy]

Ok so you and I are on the same page. 👍🏼🤝

[champdemars]

Il y a 1 heure, YUL a dit :

Il avait été entendu dès le départ qu'ADM allait financer la station. 

Autrement si la Caisse aurait eu à payer pour cette station ($600M?), le projet aurait pu complètement être différent.

J’ai lu cette semaine dans un article que la Caisse avait originalement proposé à ADM de payer pour la station et qu’elle aurait été beaucoup moins coûteuse. Mais je devine qu’elle aurait été moins bien intégrée. Le projet de ADM maintenant est totalement intégré à un projet beaucoup plus vaste et fait plus de sens mais ça coûte cher. Chose qui était absolument pas grave il y a 9 mois...

[SameGuy]

Suivant le “nudge-nudge,” c’était une situation “tout-ou-rien” — la Caisse n’allait payer que leur version, mais a refusé de partager le financement d’une station beaucoup plus élaborée.

[Né entre les rapides]

As an aside to this discussion, the Ottawa International Airport (YOW) finds itself in a similar situation, that is: 

1) Extensions to the O-Train (an LRT funded by both the federal and the provincial governments) are underway, including a connection to the airport (just like the REM in Montreal).

2) The (Ottawa) airport authority had (previously) agreed to pay for the station at the airport (just like ADM in Montreal)

3) Because of Covid-19, traffic at YOW  has been reduced drastically, ans so are revenues.

4)YOW now finds itself unable to pay for the station (just like ADM in Montreal).  

5) Guess what?  --  YOW is seeking help from the federal government.

 

[SameGuy]

$13 millions vs $600 millions 😁

YOW cherche aussi des prêts garantis.

“I want the same treatment that Montreal will probably be getting and it makes sense,” [Ottawa International Airport Authority President] Mark Laroche said.

 

 

[Né entre les rapides]

il y a 34 minutes, SameGuy a dit :

$13 millions vs $600 millions 😁

YOW cherche aussi des prêts garantis.

“I want the same treatment that Montreal will probably be getting and it makes sense,” [Ottawa International Airport Authority President] Mark Laroche said.

 

 

Oui nous disposons des mêmes informations😁

Concédons que Mark Laroche n'exagère pas.  Sa demande est très raisonnable, s'il s'agit de seulement 13 millions en prêts garantis.  Maintenant, juste pour rire, imaginons que le gouvernement fédéral offre à ADM le même traitement que celui qu'il offrirait à YOW (hum, ça provoquerait des discussions sur la signification de la parité de traitement).  Mieux encore, mais dans l'autre sens, imaginons que Mark Laroche s'appelle vraiment Régis Labeaume: il demanderait tout bonnement 600 millions, un montant "égal" à celui octroyé à ADM sous forme de garantie de prêts, mais dans son cas, il faudrait que ce soit une subvention pcq pcq pcq* il n'aurait jamais les moyens de rembourser un prêt (ou de supporter des tarifs suffisants pour attirer des investisseurs comme la CDPQ-i); vous dites que c'est invraisemblable?  -- Voyez comment sera financé le tramway portant le "beau nom" de "Réseau Structurant" .

Sérieusement:  ce qui importe dans le dossier qui nous occupe, c'est qu'il semble bien que la demande d'ADM sera exaucée.  C'est plein de bon sens, et j'aurais seulement souhaité que ça se concrétise plus tôt pour nous épargner le drame médiatique que l'on sait.

* Essayez donc de deviner quel personnage de bandes dessinées et d'animations s'exprime de cette façon!

[Nameless_1]

Il y a 3 heures, SameGuy a dit :

Agree. But those corporations choose to do that for reasons. But in this case, the Québec government gave the Caisse a mandate to build rapid transit to the airport and to Brossard over the new bridge. Imagine if the government then tried to force Devimco or RioCan to pay for the station in Brossard. The airport has been asking for a rapid rail link for decades, and built a station in 2006-2009 under the transborder jetty in anticipation. The Caisse got the mandate but told ADM they won’t be using that station infra and must build a deeper, more technically difficult station 35 m below an existing structure, at an estimated $150 million cost. ADM was indeed “swimming in money” in 2016 and agreed to take on the costs in conjunction with a major redevelopment of the airport. That seemed logical at the time and seems logical now. ADM hasn’t been begging for a subsidy, just favourable loan guarantees to complete the station while putting the major redevelopment on hold. The station will still be part of a transit system designed to serve the entire metro area and will contribute to the city, regional and provincial economies

🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️
 

Personne, mais personne, ne dit rien au contraire. 

Agreed, but I feel I have to repeat the obvious: the REM without a Dorval-Trudeau station, wathever the form or the cost,  is nonesensical; period. 

[SameGuy]

Also agree. 😁