ville-marie Tour Deloitte - 26 étages (2015)

[JFrosty]

Out come the leftists:

 

 

http://communities.canada.com/montrealgazette/blogs/soundoff/archive/2009/11/13/379276.aspx

 

Tu pourrais au moins inclure le reste du premier message, c'est pas si bête comme idée:

 

You might think this idea is way out in left field. However, for years, Vancouver has been insisting on similar social housing as part of big development projects.

 

This is an ideal way to let poor people have homes, without hitting up the taxpayer for more money.

 

These developers make tens of millions, or hundreds of millions, into their pocket for these projects. Let’s make a law like Vancouver’s law obliging the developers to set aside some of this astounding profit for housing for the poor.

 

According to the Gazette about a year ago, developers themselves have reduced the number of rentable apartments for low-income people by more than 50 per cent in the last 10 years. All this for profits in some rich people’s pockets.

 

We are talking about families here, not what some people would term welfare bums. Many of these families are “the working poor” and try to live by the rules the same as of the rest of us.

[jesseps]

Grand Central à New York est entourée de gratte-ciels de 50 à 80 étages, et la station est toujours aussi belle et aucunement diminuée par ses voisins.

 

Very true

[acpnc]

Je te copmprends très bien. Il y a 6 ans de cela, je me considerais comme un optimiste...mais depuis que je fréquente les forums sur le développement urbain(SSP, SSC, et MTLURB, je suis rendu un pessimiste(surtout quand on parle de projkets pour Montréal) et je n'ai que 33 ans!;)

 

Voyons les gars, ce n'est pas la première période morose de la ville et il y en aura d'autres, elles sont toujours précédées et suivies de périodes de développement important. Nous sommes dans un creux de vague et on ne peut que remonter éventuellement.

 

C'est ça le mouvement de la vie, expansion-contraction, comme la respiration ou les marées, tout bouge rien n'est statique. Et l'économie suit exactement ce même mouvement, ce n'est donc pas une question d'optimisme ou de pessimisme mais de simple réalisme.

[ProposMontréal]

Voyons les gars, ce n'est pas la première période morose de la ville et il y en aura d'autres, elles sont toujours précédées et suivies de périodes de développement important. Nous sommes dans un creux de vague et on ne peut que remonter éventuellement.

 

C'est ça le mouvement de la vie, expansion-contraction, comme la respiration ou les marées, tout bouge rien n'est statique. Et l'économie suit exactement ce même mouvement, ce n'est donc pas une question d'optimisme ou de pessimisme mais de simple réalisme.

 

Comme je dis, je reste optimiste j'adore encore ma ville de Montréal et je serai toujours un des grand défenseur de cette ville.

 

Mais en urbanisme comme dans la vie, si c'est trop beau pour être vrai....

 

On dirait que certains décideurs ont peur de se mouiller, peur de prendre une décision, et quand ils décident de prendre une décision qui est impopulaire envers le grand publique mais qui est une bonne chose dans le fond (hausse des prix d'Hydro) les gens se frustrent et ne comprennent pas nécessairement la mécanique derrière la dite décision.

 

Ce projet de l'AMT est superbe et devrait être mis à l'étude à l'instant même. Le terrain est un stationnement et pourrait devenir un hub de transport important. Mais quelques personnes vont brandir des pancartes anti pollution dans le coin, ou encore que ça cache quelques chose. Ceux qui ont acheté dans les Jardins Windsor seront peut-être pas content de se faire cacher le centre ville ou le trafic que ça va apporter.

 

Les chialeux crient toujours plus fort que ceux qui sont content, c'est un fait de la nature humaine. Dans les consultations publiques, rare sont ceux qui vont pousser pour un projet. Dans les audiences pour Griffintown ou Turcot, je suis certain qu'il n'y avait pas grand monde du publique qui allait avec l'intention de défendre ces projets.

 

Donc, ce projet pour moi est très beau et probablement, trop beau pour être vrai. la masse sera privée d'un projet parce que les chialeux vont crier plus fort.

Modifié 14 novembre 2009 par ProposMontréal

[Habsfan]

Voyons les gars, ce n'est pas la première période morose de la ville et il y en aura d'autres, elles sont toujours précédées et suivies de périodes de développement important. Nous sommes dans un creux de vague et on ne peut que remonter éventuellement.

 

Je suppose que tout dépends de notre perception des choses.

 

Pour moi, Montréal est dans un marasme financier(et surtout de construction) depuis 1992. Ça fait prèsque 20 ans...c'est assez long!

[ProposMontréal]

Ok, je suis tellement en crisse ce matin en lisant les blogues de Nimby's je suis carrément sur le point de pitcher mon portable par la fenêtre de mon bureau, Sacrament qu'il y à du monde sans vision je ne sais tellement plus quoi dire. Voici ma liste de lien de ce matin, bonne lecture et n'oubliez pas les commentaire, les plus cons sont la.

 

http://coolopolis.blogspot.com/2009/11/save-windsor-station-demolish-bell.html

http://spacingmontreal.ca/2009/11/15/new-amt-windsor-station-hub-examined

http://w5.montreal.com/mtlweblog/2009/11/replace-pepsi-forum.html

http://w5.montreal.com/mtlweblog/2009/11/how-to-handle-windsor-hub-concept.html

[jesseps]

Ok, je suis tellement en crisse ce matin en lisant les blogues de Nimby's je suis carrément sur le point de pitcher mon portable par la fenêtre de mon bureau, Sacrament qu'il y à du monde sans vision je ne sais tellement plus quoi dire. Voici ma liste de lien de ce matin, bonne lecture et n'oubliez pas les commentaire, les plus cons sont la.

 

http://coolopolis.blogspot.com/2009/11/save-windsor-station-demolish-bell.html

http://spacingmontreal.ca/2009/11/15/new-amt-windsor-station-hub-examined

http://w5.montreal.com/mtlweblog/2009/11/replace-pepsi-forum.html

http://w5.montreal.com/mtlweblog/2009/11/how-to-handle-windsor-hub-concept.html

 

Nothing new there.

[monctezuma]

L'article est moins pire que ce à quoi je m'attendais sur spacing montreal. C'est vrai que l'overpass sur St-Antoine sera un challenge à rendre visuellement attrayant, mais comme un des commentateurs l'écrit, Paris, N-Y et Chicago ont déjà des overpass de train qui caractérisent leurs villes respectives, alors on pourrait rendre ça intéressant.

 

Évidemment, beaucoup bitchent sur l'emplacement du Centre Bell que moi même, j'ai de la difficulté à saisir. Quelqu'un sait pourquoi il aura été bâti là exactement au lieu d'une rénovation et agrandissement majeur du forum ou encore, le construire sur un lot vacant ?

 

Le pire article est celui de ''coolopolis'', là, ils ont fait par exprès de prendre le building le plus horrible possible pour illustrer le future. C'est franchement pathétique comme article.

[MTLskyline]

friends of windsor station, take 2? activist unimpressed with transit-hub plan

 

By Andy Riga

Mon, Nov 16 2009

 

 

Some heritage and public-transit activists like the plan to revive Windsor Station by incorporating it into a new downtown transportation hub, which would be part of a major Cadillac-Fairview development.

 

But the reviews aren't all positive.

 

At Coolopolis, Kristian has done some photoshopping to show what the required bridge over St. Antoine St. might look like. He came to the conclusion that it would be a "fuglifying vista-obliterating expansion." At Spacing Montreal, Jacob Larsen used Google Earth and Google Sketchup to show what the viaduct might look like and wonders how it might affect development to the west. Also at Spacing Montreal, Émile Thomas looks at how Windsor Station ended up being cut off from its tracks.

 

And then there's Michael Fish, the architect and heritage activist who once helped save Windsor Station. I interviewed him today. He's not impressed and he has some radical ideas about how to proceed. Here's a story I wrote; a shorter version will be in Tuesday's paper.

 

Andy Riga

Gazette Transportation Reporter

 

Michael Fish, the architect and heritage activist who created Friends of Windsor Station in 1970 and helped save it from CP’s wrecking ball, says Montrealers should be wary of a proposed $520-million transportation hub that would incorporate Windsor Station.

 

Fish says it would probably be cheaper to buy and tear down the Bell Centre, which now sits between train tracks and Windsor Station, and then put the rails back where they were before the Canadiens’ home was built in 1996.

 

He suggests the plan to circumvent the Bell Centre by connecting existing Canadian Pacific tracks to a new building south of Windsor Station using 18-metre-high elevated tracks would decimate St. Antoine St. by creating a long, dark, dreary tunnel.

 

And he warns the new building, which would house the train platforms, could be overbearing, damaging the landmark Windsor Station’s heritage value.

 

“These very large, promising-everything-to-everybody real-estate plans are basically very thin balloons – somebody’s pumping it up with hot air and promising all kinds of things,” Fish said in an interview on Monday.

 

In the 1990s when the Bell Centre (then the Molson Centre) was proposed, expert studies by the city and promoters made all kinds of promises, Fish said.

 

The promoters said the arena would “revitalize” that part of downtown, Fish said.

 

“The minute they use the word ‘revitalize’ you know that the public is going to pay an awful price and the Bell Centre burned Windsor Station, it burned Mountain St., it burned St. Antoine St. Nothing happened on the other side of St. Antoine St. All the buildings rotted.”

 

The Bell Centre was “a disaster for that part of the city. They talked about how it would improve St. Antoine Now tell me St. Antoine is going to be improved by a heavy, 600-foot-wide concrete thing over it to get those tracks transferred to the south around the Bell Centre.”

 

The Gazette last week reported that Montreal's regional transit authority is putting forward a $520-million proposal that would create an intermodal transportation hub, incorporating Windsor Station, for trains, buses and tramways. It would be part of a major new development planned by Cadillac-Fairview.

 

After months of rumours about that project, the Toronto real-estate developer last week discussed it publicly for the first time, divulging it has spent $150 million buying Windsor Station and vacant land southwest of Peel and St. Antoine for a major office, retail, hotel, residential and transportation development.

 

Passengers would enter the transportation hub via Windsor Station’s la Gauchetière St. entrance, where they would find ticket counters and commercial space, the Agence métropolitaine de transport says.

 

To reach train, bus and tramway platforms, passengers would then use an aerial passageway over St. Antoine to the new building,

 

The AMT and Cadillac-Fairview have divulged few details about their projects.

 

On Monday, an AMT spokesperson said it’s too early to provide more details or comment on Fish’s assertions. A Cadillac-Fairview official did not respond to a request for more information.

 

Now retired, Fish, 76, has been involved in a series of fights to preserve heritage buildings since the 1970s, from Point St. Charles row houses to the Van Horne Mansion.

 

His take on the Windsor Station plan:

 

An intermodal hub

“It’s one of those catchphrases people like but I don’t know how valuable an intermodal hub really is when you’ve got a subway” that provides connections between various modes of transit, he said. And he’s suspicious of the AMT’s claim that a bus terminal would be built under the new train platforms.

“Trains are usually at the bottom of anything intermodal because they’re the heaviest traffic – they’re not up several stories,” Fish said. “Trains are really heavy, they make a structure vibrate like a highway so that you cannot do much under railways.”

 

The St. Antoine overpass

Land in the area is on a slope. CP tracks are at the level of la Gauchetière; St. Antoine St. is about 60 feet below that level, Fish said.

Because there isn’t enough room to allow trains to gradually reach ground level, overpasses would be needed to get trains to St. Antoine.

“That’s a tremendous infrastructure to build,” Fish said.

“The pillars have to be very close together with trains. You look at the bridges that trains go over and you see they’re much, much deeper than bridges cars go over.”

The overpass would feature “at least four tracks,” much like the overpass south of Place Bonaventure, used by trains to reach Central Station, Fish said. “You’re talking about a very long, dark overpass under which nothing can happen, except cars can drive and itinerants can sleep in the grates. It’s dirty, nobody goes there.”

A new train bridge over the street “would continue a very dreary streetscape that would be very hard to disguise.”

 

 

(Photo: http://w5.montreal.com/mtlweblog/)

Moving the Canadiens

 

The cost of the infrastructure required to keep the trains high up “has got to be equal to what the Bell Centre would be worth.”

The value of the arena is unknown but the Molson family recently paid a rumoured $550 million for the Bell Centre, Gillett Entertainment Group and 80 per cent of the Canadiens.

There’s enough room in the vacant lot southwest of Peel and St. Antoine to house a new home for the Canadiens, Fish said. “It’s got to be cheaper for the taxpayer,” he added.

So, why not buy the Bell Centre, tear it down and put the tracks back where they were? Fish said. This would reverse CP’s decision to “damage the railway infrastructure for passengers in the middle of the city,” by selling the land in the first place. There’s enough space to accommodate current and future commuter trains, a new downtown-airport shuttle, and Amtrak’s Montreal-New York City train, he said.

 

Windsor Station

Two prominent Montreal heritage activists – Phyllis Lambert and Dinu Bumbaru – praised the project last week, pleased that it would revive Windsor as a transit hub.

But Fish contends the project could hurt the station’s heritage value. “The north side of that (new) building facing the station would probably be quite a high building,” Fish said. “The south side of Windsor Station, to be really appreciated, should have some air around it.”

The first Windsor fight

In 1970, when CP said it wanted to tear down Windsor Station to make way for a new real-estate development, Fish rallied the public and the media to preserve the landmark.

Eventually, CP backed down. “So many people said that Windsor Station was not an old Victorian stone pile of junk. It was a very important heritage building that had enormous economic value.”

 

A new Windsor fight?

Will Fish create a new Friends of Windsor Station?

“I’m an old man,” he answered. “Young people do that. Those things take years. Older people should get out of the way. But I’d be delighted to be a resource person” should anybody take up the cause.

 

- Andy Riga

 

(Photo: John Kenney, The Gazette)

http://communities.canada.com/montrealgazette/blogs/metropolitannews/archive/2009/11/16/windsor-station-michael-fish-amt-transportation-hub-montreal.aspx

Modifié 17 novembre 2009 par MTLskyline

[Malcolmeyeal]

Tear down the Bell Center?...That's not serious!