REM - Prolongement Rive-Sud

[SameGuy]

22 minutes ago, Né entre les rapides said:

[Répétition du message cité inutile.]

Comme d'habitude, vous avez réussi à l'exprimer mieux que mes tentatives à poings fermés. 😂

[champdemars]

il y a 20 minutes, SameGuy a dit :

 

Exactly. A regional metro running high above the Taschereau stroad with stations every kilometre or two will do absolutely nothing to help revitalize the corridor. It will, however, get people from the hospital to the REM-A (assuming Infra actually bothers to connect them, unlike the REM-B proposal).

Je suis un éternel optimiste mais il me semble que justement autour de chaque station, il y aura une demande naturelle à revitaliser et densifier. On se retrouvera peut-être avec des trous entre chaque station mais ça me semble impossible de ne pas voir AUCUN changement de densification.

En résumé selon moi:

- Tramway: Moyen de transport moins performant et permet moins de relier l'ouest et l'est de la Rive-Sud. Cependant permet un meilleur redéveloppement plus uniforme de Taschereau (plus joli)

- REM: Moyen de transport le plus performant, permettant enfin une dessert adéquate entre l'est et l'ouest, alors justement que Brossard devient un pôle incontournable. Par contre le développement sera moins élégant (mais redéveloppement il y aura)

[Né entre les rapides]

il y a 26 minutes, champdemars a dit :

- REM: Moyen de transport le plus performant, permettant enfin une dessert adéquate entre l'est et l'ouest, alors justement que Brossard devient un pôle incontournable. Par contre le développement sera moins élégant (mais redéveloppement il y aura)

Je présume que l'est et l'ouest, ça veut dire de Longueuil à Laprairie en passant par Brossard et Saint-Lambert, ou encore plus loin, de Boucherville à Sainte-Catherine, bien que dans ce cas on dépasse l'axe Taschereau.  A mon avis, si le mode REM est choisi, l'option "allongée" serait préférable. 

[Enalung]

1 hour ago, SameGuy said:

Exactly. A regional metro running high above the Taschereau stroad with stations every kilometre or two will do absolutely nothing to help revitalize the corridor. It will, however, get people from the hospital to the REM-A (assuming Infra actually bothers to connect them, unlike the REM-B proposal).

Let's say that stations are 1km appart. You are in a new housing development halfway in between 2 station, meaning a 500 meters walk. That's not the end of the world. The frequency is likely to be high enough that even accounting for a 500 meters walk, it would still beat a tramway to the interchange with REM-A by a landslide. Heck, I regularly walk 400 meters to my local grocery store, and the most convenient bus stop is 350 meters away. The one at the corner of my street just does not go where I need it to go. Sometime, when I don't have the time to wait for the scheduled time at that 400m bus stop, I'll walk a kilometer to get to the next line.

Conveniently enough, most of the boulevards that cross Taschereau are a kilometer appart. If you want to put stations closer together, you will need to build underpass and overpass. You also need to take into account that in order to reach the tramway platform which would be located in the center of the street, you would need to use the pedestrian crossing. On average, that's at least 3-5 minutes of lost time. A REM would almost certainly have overpass and underpass which removes that wait time.

We've been talking about Longueil, but there's a very long tail end to the south, and then, it could easily turn on route 132. That kind of distance feels like it would just be way too long for a tramway and would percluse a southern extension at a latter point. This is why I beleive the a REM style system is right for that axis.

[SameGuy]

The Anse branch stations are more than 2.3 km apart (Anse <2.3>Kirkland<4.4>Fairview<4.0>Sources). Let’s not pretend that the Caisse has any incentive to drop more stations along un(der)developed segments of Taschereau than that.

[Enalung]

3 minutes ago, SameGuy said:

The Anse branch stations are more than 2.3 km apart (Anse <2.3>Kirkland<4.4>Fairview<4.0>Sources). Let’s not pretend that the Caisse has any incentive to drop more stations along un(der)developed segments of Taschereau than that.

Didn't CDPQ also get money from developers for REM-A for new development near stations? If that model is used again, I'd say that there is indeed an incentive to do exactly that.

[SameGuy]

Sure. Three or four stations on the leg from Panama station to Longueuil Metro, which is about the same length as the Anse branch.

Again, their business model is based on the per-km remittances from ARTM, not the one-time fees from developers.

[Né entre les rapides]

il y a 14 minutes, Enalung a dit :

Let's say that stations are 1km appart

I do not think this is a realistic assumption.

il y a 14 minutes, Enalung a dit :

We've been talking about Longueil, but there's a very long tail end to the south, and then, it could easily turn on route 132. That kind of distance feels like it would just be way too long for a tramway and would percluse a southern extension at a latter point. This is why I beleive the a REM style system is right for that axis.

If indeed the ultimate goal is to service the bulk of the South Shore's  urban/suburban districts, the "REM style system" would be the right choice. However, I would be wary of a "Phase One" only going from Panama to the Longueuil metro station, and subsequent phases being built  only in the distant future.  In other words, get a commitment for the full line in a single installment,  or ask for something else   better suited for a much shorter line. 

[champdemars]

Il y a 9 heures, SameGuy a dit :

Again, their business model is based on the per-km remittances from ARTM, not the one-time fees from developers.

C’est vrai. 

Mais dans les 2 cas, ils ont tout à gagner d’un redéveloppement dense autour des stations.

[SameGuy]

C’est incontournable, mais prenons comme exemple le tronçon longeant la 40 (plus ou moins), rien n’a été planifié pour embellir ou humaniser les environs de la ligne; pour l’avenir proche le REM dépendra à la refonte du réseau des bus, et plus tard des TOD autour de ses stations.