ville-marie L'Avenue - 50 étages

[vivreenrégion]

Wouldn't they have to re-design the whole base of the tower where the hotel-offices were suppose to be,I find it hard to believe they won't be able to fill 8 floors in the 3 years it will take to construct this building,very short-sighted in my opinion

Peut-être que le commercial-hôtel était leur plan B si les ventes des condos allaient moyens. Là, avec plus de 60% sold, ils n'ont plus besoin du safety. Mais on fait juste parler là, c'est une rumeur.

[GDS]

Ils pensent changer les étages hôtel à des étages condo parce que les ventes avance plus vite que prévu. Si ils le font, ça seraient seulement parce qu’ils ont déterminés qu’ils pourraient vendre 8 étages de condo plus vite que de négocier avec une firme d’hôtel et donc commencer la construction plus vite. D’après moi, les chances sont bonne qu’ils réussissent a trouvé une bannière hôtel pour ce site.

[Boosterfire]

Non seulement la perte des étages commerciaux entrainerait une perte en hauteur (donc fausse représentation), mais quelque chose me dit que les étages commerciaux doivent aussi avoir été vendu au acheteurs de condo: "il va y avoir x nombre de commerces drette en bas de votre condos!".

[MtlMan]

Incroyable comment une rumeur peut enflammer tout le monde. D'abord, on ne sait même pas d'où elle vient cette rumeur. Un gars ici a dit qu'il y avait une rumeur. Oui, mais encore? Sa source? Rien. En fait, c'est plutôt la rumeur d'une rumeur!

 

Shit. Let's relax a bit.

[Invité Olivier2160]

Wouldn't they have to re-design the whole base of the tower where the hotel-offices were suppose to be,I find it hard to believe they won't be able to fill 8 floors in the 3 years it will take to construct this building,very short-sighted in my opinion

 

I totally agree with you ! Le bureau des Ventes à ouvert à l'automne et la tour ne sera complétée que dans 3 ans, il ne fait aucun sens d'abandonner des étages si tôt alors qu'ils ont amplement le temps de trouver des locataires... Je sens une nervosité parmi nous tous de voir tous ces projets complétés et nous sommes trop impatients, les choses vont se placer mais pas en 6 mois.

[MALED1ZIONE]

Ils pensent changer les étages hôtel à des étages condo parce que les ventes avance plus vite que prévu. Si ils le font, ça seraient seulement parce qu’ils ont déterminés qu’ils pourraient vendre 8 étages de condo plus vite que de négocier avec une firme d’hôtel et donc commencer la construction plus vite. D’après moi, les chances sont bonne qu’ils réussissent a trouvé une bannière hôtel pour ce site.

 

Dès qu’une rumeur soit divulguée, il faut vérifier si elle est plausible. Personnellement, je ne la crois pas même si un des émetteurs du tuyau était très convaincu à propos de destin du projet Broccolini. Il faut tenir compte que le tour Broccolini comprend 8 étages d’espace commerciale louable sur un espace de 15000 pieds carrés, 31 étages résidentiels de 7000 pieds carrés, et 7 étages de 5000 pieds carrés. En effet, il y a 372000 pieds carrés d’espace disponible. Si 60 pourcent des unités avec une superficie moyenne de 750 pieds carrés, disant 195 unités, est déjà vendu, 146250 pieds carrés ou 39 pourcent de la superficie globale était vendu à $500/ pied carre. Le développeur ne retient que 20 pourcent du prix de vente avant la construction, donc $15 million. Ce n’est que 7,5 pourcent des fonds nécessaire pour financer un projet de $200 million.

 

Comme les promoteurs ont de la misère à vendre les grandes unités aux étages supérieures, c’est possible de supprimer les étages les plus hautes et de les remettre en place des étages commerciaux. Ce n’est aucun désastre. Au contraire, c’est très intelligent. Une telle décision permettra la Groupe Broccolini et Carterra de diminuer le coût et l’envergure du projet et de vendre plus d’unités à un prix plus abordable. En ce moment, les meilleures unités du projet l’Avenue sont plus chères que les penthouses (alors, il n’en reste que deux en ce moment) comparable en superficie dans l’immeuble qui sera construit en face. De cette manière, tous les acheteurs conservera l’étage qui leur était promit.

 

Selon moi, cela n’est que le dernier recours pour la Groupe Broccolini. S’ils veulent démarrer la construction plus vite, ils pouvaient supprimer entre 3 et 8 étages sans subir des répercussions sévères. Alors, c’est sûrement possible que le Tour des Canadiens sera enfin le plus haut édifice résidentiel en ville. Mais, avant qu’un sifflement échappe de la bouche de développeur de l’Avenue, je ne l’accepterai pas comme vérité.

 

 

 

 

 

Big risks, rewards in mixed-use development

 

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09 January 2013

By Alissa Ponchione

Editor

aponchione@hotelnewsnow.com

 

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Story Highlights

• Finding financing for mixed-use developments is hard, but spreading the risk amongst multiple entities can help mitigate losses.

• A contract for mixed-use developments should include enforcement mechanisms that put pressure on the owner to comply with standards.

• Mixed-use developments thrive in city centers where scarcity of land in urban areas attracts vertical multi-use projects.

 

 

 

REPORT FROM THE U.S.—Developing the Radisson Blu Aqua Hotel Chicago mixed-use development—which houses a hotel as well as apartments, offices and condominiums—was no easy task. Finding financing proved to be difficult and legal red tape abounded.

 

But the benefits outweighed the obstacles, according to the project’s developer.

 

“Combining uses on top of each other, it makes for a synergistic use,” said Brian Gordon, VP of development for Magellan Development Group LLC, which developed the Chicago project that comprises 334 hotel rooms, 474 apartments and 262 condos. All apartments are 100% leased and condos are 100% sold, he said.

 

“Complimentary amenities, shared parking, sharing costs split among all the different users so it operates more efficiently” are all beneficial, Gordon said.

 

 

Brian Gordon

Magellan Development Group

 

“We want to do more of it,” he added.

 

Financial planning

Finding financing for mixed-use developments is hard—“probably harder” than a standalone project, Gordon said.

 

“Nothing is easy,” he said. “Hotels are a class of real estate that is still hard to get loans on. … It’s a complicated transaction because of the moving parts. It is doable, but the banks require equity and security for that transaction.”

 

Getting financing is “absolutely more difficult,” said Dan Leverett, executive VP and managing director of development at PM Realty. There’s more risk involved for the bank, and if the property is vertically mixed, then “you’re also taking multiple asset-class risks.”

 

“You have an office underneath and a multifamily on top and retail at the base. There’s a different asset-class risk that comes into play,” he said. “Bankers worry about everything.”

 

But John Lancet, director and partner at HVS’ Miami office, said spreading the risk between different usages provides an avenue for lenders familiar with how these uses operate with each other. “How they complement each other, that actually helps improve in some circumstances the business dynamic and financeability of the project.”

 

 

The Radisson Blu Aqua Hotel Chicago is only one successful component of the mixed-use development, which includes office space, apartments and condominiums.

 

 

“The overall risk could be mitigated by sharing uses,” he said.

 

For a hotel connected to the mixed-use development, it might help lower operating costs for the hotel because the uses are spread out.

 

“But on the flip side of that, I have seen some situations where the hotels share some space with the other uses … that depresses the earning potential for hotels,” he said.

 

Legal woes

Once financing is found, owners need to deal with the legal liabilities.

 

Catherine DeBono Holmes, attorney at Jeffer Mangels Butler & Mitchell LLP, said it’s important to put in specific standards in contracts because “at the end of the day, you have to count on the owner to pay the cost of the common area, maintenance and to meet the standards. And sometimes they can’t do that.”

 

The fear is an owner of one part of the development goes bankrupt and can’t pay their share of the project.

 

“That’s the biggest risk: How do you deal with owners who can’t or won’t pay their fair share or meet your standards?” she said.

 

“One of the things we do when we create a legal structure, not only setting standards, but what kind of penalties (or) enforcement mechanisms can we apply if people don’t comply with requirements,” she said.

 

The trick is to work through what kind of enforcement mechanisms are available to put pressure on the owner to comply with the standards, DeBono Holmes said.

 

 

 

Great risk, great rewards

“Retail is a very big risk. Hotel is a big risk,” Leverett said.

 

But it comes down to one simple choice that can turn those risks into great rewards: “Location, location, location,” he said.

 

“You need to make sure you have the market for the asset class you’re thinking of developing.”

 

PM Realty developed the Woodland Town Center, a horizontal and vertical mixed-used development in Houston, a city that is growing with business and transient travelers from around the world. And it’s “one of the most successful mixed-use developments in the world,” Leverett said.

 

The 11 hotels in the Woodland Town Center, which include a Candlewood Suites, a Best Western, a Drury Inns, a Hilton Garden Inn and more, total a number of about 2,000 rooms, and achieved average daily rate, occupancy and revenue per available room numbers greater than competitors, he said. The Woodlands Waterway Marriott Hotel & Convention Center has seen strong occupancy and RevPAR numbers, he added.

 

“It’s a story that’s a statement to proximity of office and other things … especially if you have meeting space,” he said. “The key is, if you have a mixed-use center, it has a variety of things going on,” which helps cover hotels during shoulder periods.

 

The hotel serves as an anchor for other real estate uses, Lancet said.

 

“It’s really about generating interests in other products, and the hotel is a source of those potential purchasers of those other products,” he said.

 

Lancet, however, is not seeing a desire to develop hotel/condo mixed-use projects. “That’s a dying use.”

 

Markets to watch

Mixed-use developments are happening more and more, especially amid ramped up urbanization, said Jim Mouzourakis, senior managing director of hotel real estate services company Paramount Lodging Advisors.

 

In the 1960s and 1970s in the U.S., urban sprawl meant cities were growing outward to the suburbs, but now people are heading back to city centers and developments are “going vertical rather than horizontal,” Mouzourakis said.

 

This is because of a scarcity of land in urban markets, Lancet said.

 

Additionally, luxury hotels benefit from mixed-use developments because it “can drive the (project) values,” he said. For example, Four Seasons or Trump Tower mixed-use developments bring with them a certain affluent image.

 

“People are buying into that brand image. Combining your tower with Four Seasons, there’s this cache and extra amenities you’re buying into. This has a certain value added to some buyers compared to down the block with just the (condo) tower,” he said. “If done properly, it can be quite magical, where you get different components where some of the parts are greater than the whole.”

Modifié 5 février 2013 par MALED1ZIONE

[Memphis 22]

Moi, ça me fais rigoler cette rumeur

 

À propos si on enlève 8 étages comme le dit la rumeur, l'Avenue pourrait bien ressembler à ça!

 

[jerry]

Lol Memphis 22, you made my day ! D'accord aussi avec MtlMan qu'on n'est pas très patient sur ce forum, je vais le croire quand ça va être confirmé par l'Avenue ou une source proche !

[KOOL]

Excellent gag de Memphis, un humour pince-sans rire digne du grand Zappa.

[LindbergMTL]

C'est vrai qu'elle est excellente !