A-20 échangeur Dorval

[SameGuy]

3 hours ago, Né entre les rapides said:

I am disappointed that improving access from the west and the north appears to have been overlooked

I have brought this up numerous times over the years. The differences between the original, pre-2009 concept and the actual completed “project” are stark. How the bottom line tripled with only one-third of the initial design completed just defies comprehension.

 

[Né entre les rapides]

Il y a 2 heures, SameGuy a dit :

I have brought this up numerous times over the years. The differences between the original, pre-2009 concept and the actual completed “project” are stark. How the bottom line tripled with only one-third of the initial design completed just defies comprehension.

 

Yes indeed.  Imagine how I feel now, as I was already unimpressed with the "original, pre-2009 concept", which was neverthless admittedly superior to what we have now.  This earlier concept would have represented an improvement for those arriving from the west via A-20 eastbound, but nothing for those arriving from the north (+ northwest and northeast).  As you certainly know, access from those areas is achieved via the A-520 (Côte-de-Liesse) westbound; the issue is how to get on the A-520 without encountering undue delays.  The A-40/A-520 junction is still not a proper interchange as it uses traffic lights; and the A-13/A-520 interchange is not much better.

In addition, all accesses from either a) A-20 westbound from downtown, which has been completed, b) from the A-20 eastbound (not done according to the original plan so that you must use the circle), and c) from the A-520 westbound, are all single lane.   So underwhelming compared to the road accesses to Pearson, which have all been in place for several years.  

The future YUL station of the REM will represent a significant improvement for some travellers to and from downtown, west/central Montreal and the south shore.  But it will do nothing for air freight delivery.   

[SameGuy]

1 hour ago, Né entre les rapides said:

Yes indeed.  Imagine how I feel now, as I was already unimpressed with the "original, pre-2009 concept", which was neverthless admittedly superior to what we have now.  This earlier concept would have represented an improvement for those arriving from the west via A-20 eastbound, but nothing for those arriving from the north (+ northwest and northeast).  As you certainly know, access from those areas is achieved via the A-520 (Côte-de-Liesse) westbound; the issue is how to get on the A-520 without encountering undue delays.  The A-40/A-520 junction is still not a proper interchange as it uses traffic lights; and the A-13/A-520 interchange is not much better.

In addition, all accesses from either a) A-20 westbound from downtown, which has been completed, b) from the A-20 eastbound (not done according to the original plan so that you must use the circle), and c) from the A-520 westbound, are all single lane.   So underwhelming compared to the road accesses to Pearson, which have all been in place for several years.  

The future YUL station of the REM will represent a significant improvement for some travellers to and from downtown, west/central Montreal and the south shore.  But it will do nothing for air freight delivery.   

To be fair, most freight now goes direct from the ramp out through Guérite Delta to the cargo facilities on Reverchon. Only a few big movers are on Stuart-Graham (Air France/KLM and Swissport). But yes, access from the north is simply bad.

[Dominic723]

Il y a 16 heures, Charlemagne a dit :

Ouais, faites payer les travailleurs de construction qui bâtissent votre ville.

Oui comme n'importe quel autres personnes qui les utilisent... les usagers chialent qui a toujours des chantiers, car on les entretien mal, faut ben ça se paye d'une manière...

[Rantanplan]

Le 2021-05-28 à 19:12, Né entre les rapides a dit :

In a previous post, I explained the difference between the road network of the MTQ  and the one by its Ontatio counterpart, where counties pay for local roads.   

More importantly, tolls can only make sense in a few limited cases and even then, they can have counterproductive effects.  It is not for nothing that Montreal fought so hard to avoid tolls on the new Samuel-de-Champlain bridge.  Interestingly, those countries in Europe that have toll roads have them on intercity/interregional/international segments, but not within metropolitan areas  -- see Paris, Warsaw etc.  In Spain, toll roads originally funded by the private sector are gradually turning into freeways when the contracts expire.  In the USA, toll roads mostly preceded the advent of Eisenhower's Interstate System; they include New York State Thruway, Pennsylvania Turnpike, Ohio Turnpike etc.  In Canada there used to be a number of toll highways and bridges, some of them pretty small, like the Pont de Terrebonne.  In the Province of Québec, the Office des Autoroutes was charged with building radial motorways from Montreal, which "gave" us the Autoroute des Laurentides, the Autoroute des Cantons de l'Est and l'Autoroute de la Rive-Nord., all charging tolls  -- which were subsequently suppressed, gradually, commencing with the areas further away from Montreal.  More recently, a new "generation" of toll roads have appeared on the map, e.g. the bridge of A-25 over the rivière des Prairies and the bridge of the A-30 over the St.Lawrence River, as well as the 407 ETR north and west of Toronto (the more recent eastern extension is also a toll road, altough it is owned by the provincial government).  I must say that I question the wisdom of charging tolls on highways which serve to attenuate congestion on freeways such as the 401.  If tolls are found to be desirable, they shoud instead be set to discourage entrace into the core of the cities, as they do in London UK.  

Regardless, back to the issue of the Dorval interchange (on which I commented a couple of times previously), I can only add that I am disappointed that improving access from the west and the north appears to have been overlooked, despite the fact that many companies have chosen this location because of the proximité of the airport.  

In my mind it would be tolls for every single road. Every driver needs to pay for every km of road he or she drives on. 

[Né entre les rapides]

il y a 2 minutes, Rantanplan a dit :

In my mind it would be tolls for every single road. Every driver needs to pay for every km of road he or she drives on. 

That would bring society back to the Middle Age.  There are more efficient means to achieve the implicit goal.  Mobility in and by itself is positive.  Individual cars are often the best (and in several cases the only) way to ensure mobility, notably in sparsely populated areas.  Admittedly, it can become a case of "too much of a good thing" in densely populated urban areas.  There, the use of private cars can have significant detrimental effects; it can be discouraged, as long as more attractive options are made available, such as efficient public transit.  Those who nevertheless still choose to use their cars in these areas are already (or should be) paying the price, in the form of hefty parking fees (or, if the users own their own parking spots, a specific tax on them).

No activity should be "taxed to death", because then you get no tax yield -- unless of course this is your real goal.

[Monsieur_MA]

Voici ce que l'on peut lire dans le
Projet de réaménagement de l’échangeur Dorval (Lot 2A)
Rapport de surveillance environnementale
des travaux de 2009:

Citation

L’ensemble des travaux entourant le réaménagement de l’échangeur Dorval s’échelonnent à
compter de 2008 jusqu’à 2013. Des travaux préparatoires ont eu lieu au cours de l’automne
2008, et ce, pendant une période de quatre (4) semaines.

Nous sommes en 2021 et ce n'est pas toujours fini. Troublant!

[Né entre les rapides]

Il y a 5 heures, Monsieur_MA a dit :

Voici ce que l'on peut lire dans le
Projet de réaménagement de l’échangeur Dorval (Lot 2A)
Rapport de surveillance environnementale
des travaux de 2009:

Nous sommes en 2021 et ce n'est pas toujours fini. Troublant!

C'est une tournure (issue) pourtant fréquente.  Il y a même des projets annoncés en grande pompe qui ne sont même plus à l'ordre du jour  -- par exemple la transformation en véritable autoroute du tronçon de l'A-20 sur l'île Perrot et à Dorion jusqu'à l'échangeur avec l'A-30 exclusivement.  

For this reason, I'm kind of from Missouri, when it comes to announcements.

[Monsieur_MA]

Il y a bien des projets annoncés qui n'ont jamais été réalisés. La liste est longue au MTQ. Dans le cas de l'échangeur Dorval, le chantier a bel et bien débuté il y a fort longtemps. Il faudrait être devin pour savoir quand il finira.

[Rocco]

Aurait été fini en 3 ans si CDPQi s'en était occupé. La politicaillerie partisane et les changements de gouvernement aux 4 ans tuent tous les projets financés par le public.