The Economist: Montreal placed 36th on the list

[Habfanman]

De quelles criteres ou donnés dans l'étude fais-tu fais reference pour arriver avec cette conclusion?

 

I'll ignore the list-obsessed Village Idiot.

 

It's difficult to respond to this particular study (which is just one of thousands) as they don't supply any specific breakdown on any of the Canadian cities other than a number. 57.5? Euh.. OK, what does that mean? But any study from the Economist will put a great emphasis on financial centres, so much so that the study could be more accurately named "What 55 year old bankers look for in a city" That's fine, but what if you're not a 55 year old banker? What if you're a 30 year old aeronautical engineer? A 25 year old visual artist? A bio technician? A musician? I'm sorry but there's more to life than "What business guys want" because all they really want to do is make money and anything that gets in the way of that will fall by the wayside - if you let them run the show. And we've seen where they've taken the world over the past decade or so: to the brink of collapse. The more bankers get their way it seems the more fucked up everything becomes. So I wouldn't place too much emphasis getting our 'Economist ranking' up. At least not to the detriment of all else.

 

When I look at the rankings and I see cities like Berlin, Montreal, Melbourne, Hamburg finishing well below a dump like Toronto, I know that my idea of a great city and the Economist computer's idea of a great city differ widely. I'd like to take the Economist computer (I hope it's a laptop!) to each of these cities and see if it changes its mind. Of course these conclusions weren't arrived at by actual humans who have lived in or even visited these cities. These conclusions are reached by taking data that is important to bankers (but not necessarily to the rest of us) and feeding it into a machine. The results are predictable with the 3 or 4 financial powers that really matter finishing at the top and the rest - that are interchangeable and don't really matter at all - arguing over who gets to carry New York, London or Tokyo's briefcase to the next meeting. Somewhat like the world's 25 largest army bragging because it has 75 tanks and the 35th largest army only has 65 tanks. It doesn't really matter when the U.S. army has over 8000 tanks.

 

That said, I do want us to continue to do well and there are many things we can improve upon. But it's important that these improvements are made with the emphasis upon making life better for us - the people who live here - and not simply on providing better data for the Economist computers.

 

The most important improvement that needs to be made IMO are in transit and infrastructure. We need to extend the metro, AMT, LRT NOW - not 5,10 years from now. We need to take down the Turcot, Bonaventure, fix the roads NOW. These will have direct benefits for citizens and the economy. Every dollar spent (wisely) on infrastructure NOW gives economic benefits of 2 or 3 times that amount in the future. Expand the Palais de Congès, fix the Stade, build the airport train. Enough with the endless studies, start NOW!

 

And the language issue. I can't help but think that if we took that dossier out of the hands of hardline politicians on both sides of the issue and gave it to the 90% of us who get along fine every day, it could be solved over the weekend. Instead, it keeps being passed from one group of idiots to the next who continually use it to pit each of us against the other simply to garner support from the extreme minority at either end of the nutbar spectrum. As an anglo transplant, I don't really see much of a problem in my daily life yet I READ about problems Every. Single. Day. Most of them are manufactured by the local Problem Industry who only benefit from creating trouble where trouble doesn't actually exist. End the Problem Industry!

 

Otherwise, concentrate on our strengths: aerospace, life sciences, pharma, digital arts, cultural industries. Broadcast our 'uniqueness' to potential tourists. Plan our development properly, decrease the gap between rich and poor, send mark_ac to Toronto..

 

Smart stuff that will immediately improve the city.

Modifié 11 juin 2013 par Habfanman

[Habfanman]

Habfanman - you're the epitome of mediocrity based on your comments

 

With all due respect Sir, I doubt that there is a more mediocre member of this site, than you.

[ToxiK]

If we happily accept the occasions when Montréal does well on these lists, we also have to accept the contrary. We could however debate their data or information and try to show how they are skewed (if we believe they are), but it might be more productive to suggest ways how we can improve our lot in specific areas, if we want to at all.

 

We can't be good in everything, no city can. To remain competitive, Montréal needs to concentrate on areas where it has an edge, improve in other areas and continue to innovate and develop new ones...and hope we come out near the top.

 

Smartets comment I have read about lists and rankings in a long time...

[MRG]

MRG

Citation Envoyé par Habfanman Voir le message

 

With all due respect Sir, I doubt that there is a more mediocre member of this site, than you.

With all due respect sir. You're completely out of touch.

 

Désolé de me mêler à votre discussion. Mais voici un article intéressant qui vient tout juste de paraître sur le New York Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/12/sports/soccer/canadian-soccer-rift-grows-out-of-quebec-federations-turban-ban.html?hp

Canadian Conflict Grows Out of Quebec Soccer Federation’s Ban on Turbans

 

 

By SAM BORDEN and IAN AUSTEN

 

Published: June 11, 2013

 

The newest intersection of soccer and cultural controversy has an unusual address — Canada.

 

The Canadian Soccer Association on Monday suspended the Quebec Soccer Federation, which oversees leagues of all ages in the province, after it refused to comply with a national directive permitting players who wear turbans to participate in games.

 

A spokeswoman for the national governing body said it sent a memo to all of its local associations in April, affirming its position that turbans and two other types of headwear — patkas and keski — were allowed to be worn by players. That provision was successfully applied everywhere in Canada, the spokeswoman said, except for Quebec; the Quebec Soccer Federation, known as F.S.Q., voted earlier this month to ban such headwear, saying it was concerned that it presented a safety issue.

 

Brigitte Frot, the director general of the F.S.Q., told reporters last week that she was unaware of any injuries directly caused by players wearing turbans, but believed they should be banned anyway. Asked during a teleconference what she would say to a young child who was unable to play because of the rule, she said: “They can play in their backyard, but not with official referees, not in the official rules of soccer. They have no choice.”

 

Aneel Samra, an 18-year-old student from Montreal who was affected by the ban on turbans, called Frot’s comments “one of the most disrespectful things I’ve ever heard.”

 

In an interview Tuesday, Samra added: “I’ve played for 11 years, but this year I didn’t even register because they told me I couldn’t play. It’s ridiculous.”

 

Frot and other F.S.Q. officials were not made available for comment Tuesday. Leaders of the organization were said to be planning a meeting for Tuesday night to discuss the suspension. Frot previously said her organization was taking its direction from FIFA, the governing body of world soccer, which does not clearly state that turbans are allowed.

 

Critics of the F.S.Q.’s decision note, however, that FIFA, which has explicit rules regarding uniforms, also does not unequivocally ban turbans in the way that it does, say, jewelry. Many other countries, including the United States, allow players to wear turbans and other religious head coverings, like skullcaps, as long as the referee does not deem them to be dangerous.

 

The turban ban has played out against a familiar backdrop. Quebec’s French-speaking majority long ago went from being dominated politically and socially by the Roman Catholic church to being the most secular people in Canada. Only about 15 percent of Quebecers attend church, and most people in the province long ago rejected its teachings on birth control, same-sex marriage and abortion.

 

But the question of how to deal with immigrants’ cultural religious practices remains a thorny issue in the province, where there are about 9,200 Sikhs, according to recent census data. Months of public hearings on the subject in 2007 and 2008 showed that many French-speaking Quebecers felt anxious that their identity and language would be threatened by making allowances for the ways of others. The special commission called that a crisis of perception, and the evidence suggested that the worry was strongest in parts of the province with relatively few immigrants.

 

Daniel Weinstock, a philosopher and a professor at McGill University’s law school in Montreal, said the fact that the soccer federation’s bans largely involved children’s play have made them stand out.

 

“Even if the motivations of the federation are completely innocent and bureaucratic, this has been set into a toxic culture of us and them,” Weinstock said. After initially staying out of the turban debate, Quebec’s separatist Parti Québécois government took the side of the federation Tuesday.

 

Speaking to reporters, Pauline Marois, the Quebec premier, avoided discussing the safety issues. She turned the issue instead into an example of Canada unjustly telling Quebec what to do, a common theme of the separatist movement.

 

“I think the Quebec federation has the right to establish its own regulations,” she said. “It is autonomous, not subject to the Canadian federation.”

 

Soccer was at the center of another accommodation debate during those hearings after the Quebec federation in 2007 banned the use of hijabs, Muslim head scarfs, from play, a move matched by the province’s taekwondo federation. Then, as now with turbans, safety was the soccer federation’s ostensible concern. The hijab ban was finally lifted last year.

 

The Canadian Soccer Association’s suspension of the FSQ does not affect the Montreal Impact, who play in Major League Soccer, but it does affect some youth teams, including all-star teams that compete outside the province. In addition, if the suspension continues through the summer, teams from Quebec will not be allowed to compete in Canada’s national championships. Further, nationally certified referees are prohibited from working games in Quebec.

 

Balpreet Singh, who serves as legal counsel for the World Sikh Organization of Canada, said his organization had been attempting to address the issue with the F.S.Q. for years.

 

Singh said in an interview Tuesday that his organization initially protested to the federation in 2007 when it would not allow a girl to play soccer because she was wearing a hijab. In 2011, Singh said, a referee in Quebec was not allowed to officiate because she was wearing a hijab. Last year. the policy disallowing turbans was unofficially instituted.

 

“We have reached out with letters and phone calls, and have received no response, not one, from the Quebec Soccer Federation,” Singh said, adding that his organization would consider legal action if the F.S.Q. did not reverse its decision.

 

“We’re not asking anyone else to wear a turban,” Singh said. “We’re not trying to give a message through our turban. It’s a personal expression of faith that is absolutely essential. But it’s not something that imposes a message

[Habfanman]

With all due respect sir. You're completely out of touch.

 

I'll attempt to 'get in touch' by running home and looking up lists on the internet every day. Fuck all this travelling and living in different places. Who needs it? Knowledge is but a mouse click away...

Modifié 12 juin 2013 par Habfanman

[Habfanman]

Wisdom from Joey Saputo. Too bad that the Problem Industry has already taken over the show. Justin Time Trudeau has weighed in with his vote-fishing opinion therefore Pauline Marois must automatically take an opposing stance. It's like an automatic trigger: One side says this, the other must say that. Common sense is lost in the shuffle. Too bad, as there is no hope of coming up with an intelligent solution now. It's Officially Political. And you tell me: Could we, all the people who are members of MTLurb, have not have solved this problem before it even became a problem? Could 90% of Québécois - regardless of their language or ethnicity - have solved this 'problem' before it became a 'problem'? I think so, and I think we are all being manipulated by the Problem Industry. Put an end to the Problem Industry!

 

 

Le Président de l'Impact de Montréal Joey Saputo a émis la déclaration suivante :

 

« Personnellement, je pense qu’on ne devrait pas empêcher un enfant de jouer au soccer au niveau mineur parce qu’il porte un turban. Toutefois, je comprends la décision de la Fédération de soccer du Québec qui a été prise selon un règlement de la FIFA, qui laissait place à interprétation. Les commentaires accusant la fédération de racisme sont déplacés compte-tenu du contexte dans lequel la fédération a dû naviguer. L’Association canadienne de soccer a fait une recommandation et n’a pas statué précisément sa position auprès des fédérations provinciales. Par ailleurs, la décision de l’Association canadienne de suspendre la fédération est donc nettement exagérée. Toutes les instances en cause doivent trouver un terrain d’entente pour le bien du sport.»

Modifié 12 juin 2013 par Habfanman

[IluvMTL]

Speaking of out of touch...How come a few people here are talking about turbans and pasta in a thread that is supposed to be about the Economist Report? These people should stay on topic or create their own.

 

I suggest that people who want to keep threads on topic ignore comments from those that try to steer it towards another agenda, or want to grind another axe. If you ignore their comments they will eventually stop.

 

BTW

Personal attacks are unacceptable on an intelligent discussion.

 

If this continues up I will close this thread.

Modifié 12 juin 2013 par IluvMTL

[IluvMTL]

Please cite them from the report.

[qwerty]

Sad that you can't even be humble enough to realize we've become the laughing stock of North American media (pastagate, Turbangate etc etc.)

 

 

Disagree with you.

That is simply old thinking.

Montreal has been a lagger in the past, but we have turned the corner and its time to realise this and move forward.

It will take some times for our neighbours to realise this as the past will follow us for a while but this only a matter of time.

These changes of mindset and perspective start at the individual level.

[MtlMan]

Personnellement, je trouve ridicule toute cette controverse. Laissez les kids jouer, calvaire. Mais rendu dans les échelons compétitifs de plus haut niveau, ou même professionnel, faudrait quand même revenir sur terre: si le joueur possède un "hindrance" à cause de sa religion (genre le turban = pas capable de faire des coups de tête normaux, ben là, soit tu l'enlèves ou tu arrête de jouer à ce niveau de compétition, that's it).

 

Pour des ti-gars, fuck, pourquoi tout ce troub? La Fédération québécoise est probablement dirigée par des gens de l'extérieur de Mtl. Je suis prêt à parier que ceux qui sont en désaccord sont montréalais. Si c'est le cas (je n'ai pas de preuve ceci dit) ce serait encore un exemple des régions qui sont plus préoccupées par les questions "d'accomodements" que les montréalais eux-mêmes, malgré le fait que ces régions n'ont à peu près AUCUN immigrant sur leur territoire! Crisse, qu'y s'occupent donc de leur agro-tourisme saisonnier pis qu'y laissent les gens de Montréal dealer avec ces questions-là. Ça va aller mieux....