Covering of the Decaire expressway

[Fortier]

Il y a 16 heures, Spiter_01 a dit :

Si on fait l'addition de toutes les millions que Valérie Plante a promis pour les parcs Jean-Drapeau, Lafontaine et René-Lévesque on arrive a combien de centaines de millions?

Des milliards

Il y a 17 heures, KOOL a dit :

Sérieux, ça serait pas mal plus important et esthétique au niveau cicatrice urbaine que de finir de recouvrir l'autoroute Ville-Marie avant Décarie. 

C’est dans le même article…

« Tandis que du côté de Ville-Marie, l’équipe Coderre prévoit créer un espace public de quatre hectares, de la rue Sanguinet au boulevard Saint-Laurent. Ce serait le plus gros espace du genre de la métropole. Le recouvrement pourrait également permettre d’agrandir le Palais des Congrès et le quartier de la santé où se trouve le CHUM. »

https://www.journaldemontreal.com/2021/10/10/denis-coderre-prevoit-faire-recouvrir-les-autoroutes-ville-marie-et-decarie

[SameGuy]

You’ve got to admit it takes balls to be this self-unaware. Hilarious!

«La proposition d’Ensemble Montréal est très embryonnaire. En bref, on parle d’une étude pour voir combien ça coûte pour ensuite demander à Québec de payer. C’est le genre de projet qui ne se réalisera pas demain matin», a indiqué Projet Montréal par courriel.
 

[coughLigneRosecough]

[Rocco]

De la politique au ras-des-paquerettes de part et d'autre. La population a ce qu'elle mérite.

[SameGuy]

3 minutes ago, Rocco said:

La population a ce qu'elle mérite.

No argument there. We only elect populists, never pragmatists.

[Né entre les rapides]

il y a 40 minutes, Rocco a dit :

De la politique au ras-des-paquerettes de part et d'autre. La population a ce qu'elle mérite.

 

il y a 34 minutes, SameGuy a dit :

No argument there. We only elect populists, never pragmatists.

Perhaps, but the end result for our society remains globally better than in most other countries worldwide, including the USA, Western Europe, the UK, Japan and South Korea, to name just a few of the best.

Politicking during electoral campaigns is one thing, actual governance is quite another.   I know of leaders who debate seriously, but then make silly decisions once in power.  All we need to do is to pay no attention to unrealistic promises.  What truly count is pragmatism in governing.  And don't ever forget that we as citizens can continue to play important roles between elections: we are not under a dictatorship where all decisions are made at the top.  

[go_habs_go]

9 hours ago, Né entre les rapides said:

 

Perhaps, but the end result for our society remains globally better than in most other countries worldwide, including the USA, Western Europe, the UK, Japan and South Korea, to name just a few of the best.

How do you evaluate/measure something like that? Strength of social programs? Happiness surveys? Personal anectodes? Feelings?

[SameGuy]

I suspect we would fall way way way down the lists (by any of those measurements) compared to cities in the country/regions cited.

[amaist]

9 hours ago, Né entre les rapides said:

I know of leaders who debate seriously, but then make silly decisions once in power.  All we need to do is to pay no attention to unrealistic promises.  What truly count is pragmatism in governing.

I used to think like that. To the most part it is true that most politicians don't try to seriously follow through on their most ridiculous promises. Sadly some do. It's not always obvious which ones will do that.

If you repeat an idea frequently for a long enough period of time it eventually becomes normal to a large number of people. That's how crazy and dangerous ideas infect us.

I am not saying covering up Decarie Expressway is a dangerous idea. It does seem like a waste of time and money to me, though. The disruption that project will cause will be even more painful to the whole city than the monetary cost. I already call it the Decarie Parking Lot. With this project over several years people better learn how to navigate surface streets in the area to get anywhere.

Yes, it's a noisy nuisance. But that was already known for generations. There are other areas of Montreal that can use some investment to become more pleasant to live in. With much better returns per million spent.

[Né entre les rapides]

Il y a 2 heures, SameGuy a dit :

I suspect we would fall way way way down the lists (by any of those measurements) compared to cities in the country/regions cited.

There are of course thousands of examples elsewhere of fine urban initiatives that surpass anything we do in Quebec.  However, these take place within national contexts which abound in grave social problems and/or gross cases of management failures/highly questionable choices/widespread inaction or hesitation to take serious action. 

Let me take my favorite (so to speak) set of examples, in Germany: there you have  great things, such as the Vauban district in the city of Freiburg-im-Brisgau (SW Ger), but you also have city councils so desperate for funds that they sold (virtually gave away) their vast publicly-owned social housing complexes to private developers, and are now facing intractable problems of affordability; you have interminable disputes on infrastructure projects, resulting in countless incomplete stretches of highways (= stubs), the most elaborate interchange in the country sitting in the middle of nowhere,  renewable energy installations (wind and solar) in the northen part of the country, all the while demand is in the south and the construction of transmission lines is hampered by local opposition, the closure of nuclear power plants forcing an increased reliance on dirty lignite-burning plants; and lots of fine and secure bike paths but also increasingly congested highways with infinite lines of lorries (trucks).    Unemployment statistics are generally better than in neighbouring countries, but poverty has increased substantially, and persons past the normal retirement age are forced to take menial jobs just to survive.  Not enough young peoples pursue advanced education, for lack of means or opportunities.  Funding for start-ups is lacking.  Etc etc.  Overall not an admirable picture.

France has built some social housing complexes which are truly remarkable for their architecture, but at the same time many districts remain no-go zones.  Violence is widespread, and so is poverty.  Japan and South Korea have great cities with efficient transportation, but their young peoples lack the means or the will to have children;  poverty is also spreading.  In the case of the USA, I find no need to add to all the information that we get daily: typically, this is where you find much the best and some of the not-so-good; note that their "best" part is not necessarily the result of fine public policies, but rather of strong and powerful private endeavours.  

Canada (and Quebec and Montreal) may not have the best leaders, but they are not prone to making the worst mistakes, helped by a population which is comparatively reasonable and peaceful.  Not the land of the extreme, except of course for the weather!  It's a long way from Covering the Décarie Expressway!

[SameGuy]

5 hours ago, Né entre les rapides said:

It's a long way from Covering the Décarie Expressway!

😂 En effet!! Mais nos dialogues sont toujours productifs et positifs, alors je ne peux pas m'empêcher de les laisser suivre leur cours !