Russell

the ramshackle builidngs across the street belong to the SHDM...the parking lot is divided amongst several obstinate owners (one of which is for sale)...so unrealistic to just try and move a project...development calls for the best possible project on the land you own or could potentially acquire...otherwise the architects on this forum would be much better off if developers could simply take the ownership away from someone else to build a fancy project.

somewhat surprised with the city's desire to provide this height limit for this site, not quite in character with the surrounding lower rise cite multimedia and quais de la commune project but nonetheless a good infill site that will only add to a desirable residential area.

lets just think this through one last time...and sorry in advance for the rather denigrating tone.

1) there is no shortage of office sites in and around the downtown core, especially once the bonaventure comes down opening up several large-scale commercial sites between duke and nazareth

2) we have a willing developer and tenant for an approximately $100 million privately funded office development project, which have been kind of a rarity since circa 1989/1992 for those keeping count

3) this will be a taj mahal LEED platinum building, albeit a little shorter and not to the site's maximum density, for one of the remaining canadian head offices of scale in our city

4) this development will spur a parallel transformation of an existing commercial complex into a permanent performance hall / boutique hotel for the cirque du soleil

5) tenants have the right to relocate personnel globally for any sort of reason

so the rationale to criticize or stop this project is that the building is not big or tall enough thus we are punching below our weight. on the flipside, a decison to review the development on architectural merits could potentially piss off Rio Tinto Alcan (and the Cirque du Soleil again) to the point where they kaibosch the entire project.

i am certainly glad that the members of this forum are not setting economic policy for the city of montreal as we do not have a line-up of tenants for these types of projects...we can all dream for manhattenesque towers, but this is not what the market wants therefore i think there is zero negotiating leverage here for the city to make major demands.

this is part of the galeries laval project now fully owned by the FTQ...they will want density added to the front end of the site facing st-martin. notice the adjacent buildings not marked that do not currently exist (phases 2&3)...nonetheless, many proposed office projects in laval but no major anchor tenants to occupy the buildings.

GDS and Cataclaw, you miss the point and your extrapolation of strip centres obviously goes a little far, we are talking about a +/- $100 million development project.

This development is tenant driven with an accomodating developer. alcan could not give a shit about montreal's urban plan, they want a taj mahal style single-tenant property and clearly this is one of the few places they would want to locate themsleves. to develop an office tower and actually build to 200 meters, the developer would need to find a minimum 400,000 SF tenant to be the anchor (not rio tinto alcan) and the last one left the downtown core for nuns island because it was deemed too pricey, rogers stayed at place bonaventure on the cheap, and the next one is building their own building on rene-levesque. we could be waiting another 15 years, i think tremblay would like to see a crane on this site before he finally takes an exit.

a prime office site is not denoted by its potential height, but by the tenant's that choose to situate themselves there, and adding rio tinto alcan to this square certainly improves on a very high prestige level. i think everyone in the commercial real estate community (and political sphere) would embrace this building going up beside Altoria at the same time, perhaps this would entice a major global corporation to consider MTL as a location for a new HQ, or stop the bleeding of our existing corporate base.

if the architecture/urban planning world does not appreciate it...focus on the condo market because that is where height will be attained, the office market is in a totally different reality.

people relax...the lower height is a function of many components including:

1) this tower is being built to LEED platinum and is going to cost a fortune which other tenants will likely not want to pay

2) alcan only needs 250,000 SF and does not want an inefficient 10,000 SF floor plate to artificially gain height, and are not prepared to share (as before) their amenitie and, lobby, as well as building security issues

3) westcliff has the right to build it to whatever height they want and make it single-tenant if that is their economic preference. they also know that other tenants may not be willing to pay an above market rental rate and in consideration they have excess density for another sister building, will build this as phase 2.

keep in mind that the great majority of the square is single-tenant and low-rise (quebecor, TD, Power Corp, CDP) so this building fits in nicely but IMO would be a major issue if it was on rene-levesque.

the project is basically a go, which also means the transformation of the former sherbrooke property. these are exciting times for downtown real estate and a great many of you shit on the development and ignore the basic realities that the developer is facing in order to land their anchor tenancy and build this at a reasonable return.

i saw the new rendering at a recent conference. very impressive.

it is not a tall building (about 28 stories) to the dismay of many on this forum, but quite a spectacular building and miles different from the 90's esque billboard on the site...i will try and scan the image from a magazine that was distributed, although the quality may be weak.

yaccarrini is doing everything he can do make cafe cleopatra suffer...

benisti also has multiple real estate investments. this was previously a suites hotel so no reduction in office space. the office building is next door at 440 rene-levesque.

it is without a doubt that Cadillac will build to the highest level possible. I have heard that they will partner with Canderel to promote and build the condo tower, who have the most relevant high-rise experience as anyone in Montreal for this type of project. the rumour is that the sales office will be on the site in February, but they will likely allow pre-sales to accumulate for as long as necessary to get to the critical thresholds.

alos, they are building here because they can stack the density they own from Gare Windsor onto a relatively efficient 18,000 SF site. keep in mind that you cannot transfer density off adjacent parcels, and the parcels across the street have fragmented ownership and are being priced far more aggressively than the price they paid for this land.

you cannot simply chop up the land and sell individually to promoters. the point of the deal for SRC is to take the profits from the land and the existing tower to build new studio and office space, as well as an enormous underground parking facility. SRC has no money to do this themselves, and therefore they require a master developer who will take the risk on the initial investments with the upside of developing 2000 units over time. simply look at what concorde adex is doing at concorde park place on the 401 and leslie to understand the magnitude of what needs to take place here and realize no group of developers can pull this off in any sort of orchestrated manner.

even if there is interest from overseas investors (and locals are way too timid to take on this type of project unless the vendor finances the deal comme les bassins), the conservative government needs to permit Radio-Canada to execute a long-term leaseback for its new class A office premises and recording studio space.

as much as the feds want to appeal to quebec, i think it will be duct tape and band aids for the foreseeable future for this monstrosity of neglect and oversized exterior parking lot.

try $550-$650 psf for the upper floors...still a good investment

this project is simply ecoonomically non-viable as the tenant (Radio-Canada) has no ability to finance the lease of new premises. and following the Gare Viger mis-adventure and international malaise to risk, there will not be a line up of financial partners for such a mega-project in downtown montreal.

good point cataclaw...university and RL is the one intersection that is the least lively after 6pm in the downtown core...with this, 400 RL and altitude, there will be considerably more pedestrian activity after-hours, and should draw more retail and restaurants into the ground floor space of the office towers.

nice in-fill project...it is a busy intersection but should appeal to those who cannot afford westmount or those in hampstead, Montreal West or CSL who want to live a little closer to downtown and have better public transit accessibility.

not very busy yesterday afternoon. pricing is $315 for small units and $335 psf for larger units on the 14th floor, plus a parking stall at 35k, so that is cheap. reservation system is not entirely refundable, actual sales contracts to be signed in february with delivery aimed for Fall 2013.

i find it interesting that on these forums everyone discusses how they appreciate the urban mix of montreal...ghettos adjacent to more properous neighbourhoods, offices and commercial mixed with low, medium and high-rise residential. however when someone proposes to build something at $330 psf, it is declared cheapo and inappropriate. refer to Yaletown in Vancouver for how neighbourhoods organically grow, not all of it is beautiful, but these properties do make great investments because a rising tide lifts all boats...and no doubt this will occur here as the area fills in with nicer projects.

montreal is absorbing a fair number of mid to high end condo projects currently so something less pricey is not terrible, and griffintown is far from being posh at the moment. However i doubt he can sell at $330 psf and make any worthwhile money for this type of project. hard costs for high-rise construction are approaching $200 psf (due to all the infrastructure/institutional projects), plus approx $25-$30 psf for land (on density), add on 20% for soft costs and marketing and you have a relatively skinny profit margin. i think it starts at $330 psf on the low rise section and add 50k for a parking spot, however if it is priced this way i am buying a unit or two, no matter how cheap the materials may be in the end.

the low rise is podium parking to the height of the bell centre, at which point the hotel segment will rise. very exciting project!

the extra land is part of 407 mcgill. i understand that the new owner of the property will be constructing a glass curtain wall expansion to the office building.

I think that they are forced to accept a smaller tower because they can no longer transfer density from the Ogilvy site. If they want to maximize the commercial component (potentially 3 above-grade and 1 below grade) to take advantage of the proximity to Ogilvy, Holt Renfrew, etc, they really could only go up a max of 15 stories with a smaller but efficient residential floorplate of approx 10,000 SF.

In any event, this will be a nice in-fill project, but we as a community should not dismiss the fact that the density factor is 12, and therefore the only other possibility is a 7,000 SF 24 storey building, which is not particularly efficient and they would be competing for buyers with Cadillac Fairview, the Ritz and potentially the Waldorf Astoria. And they paid zero for the land, so why not take a less risky development approach, there will certainly be riskier projects in the downtown core proposed over the next couple years.

very nice re-utilization of an industrial complex located in the heart of the city. this definately transforms the vocation and clientele of the immediate area.

the only problem is the developer has not followed through on other projects, same owners as the parking lot behind 507 place d'armes...so this is only conceptual at this stage.

this is a new project for Groupe Canvar, who purchased the multi-storey parking lot facing the sales centre...

has the city promised to bury the telephone and other electrical wires along Ottawa and de la montagne...they are disgusting to look at and have no place in a newly urbanized node.

I spoke with the developer last week on this project...very excited as he is the only game in town for anyone seeking to buy a condo in westmount. He stated that he is obtaining in excess of $650 psf, and will be able to recuperate most of the existing structure and parking facilities. I imagine that this will be under construction by year-end.