Aller au contenu
publicité

Cataclaw

Membre
 Afficher le profil  Parcourir son contenu

  • Compteur de contenus

    6 349

  • Inscription

  • Dernière visite

  • Jours gagnés

    16

 Type de contenu 

Messages posté(e)s par Cataclaw

    Autoroute - Pont de la 25 (2011)

    dans Complétés

    Posté(e)

    lol, i guess we're just fundamentally different you and I.

     

    To me a country drive is about admiring the scenery and taking in fresh air, you it's about driving fast ;) I get my adrenaline rush at the gym 4 times a week. At least that requires more effort than just pushing your toes down on a metallic pedal ;) ;)

     

    Sure to upgrading Rte-335 to autoroute specifications. It's already planned and coming soon too. I honestly think your balance is nowhere near the middle and is heavily skewed towards cars, but anyway.. debate ad infinitum.

    Autoroute - Pont de la 25 (2011)

    dans Complétés

    Posté(e)

    It is just that road capacity doesn't create the conditions for sprawl and low-density, it permits it to happen if people want to do that, which I think is a significant point.

     

    Sure, but on the flip side, adding transit capacity instead (or at least on an equal level) creates the conditions for higher-density and better urban cities. It permits it to happen if people want to do that. And studies have shown that people tend to want that.

     

    It all comes back to my central argument : everything in moderation and a healthy balance between road infrastructure and alternatives/transit.

     

    I would say cutting a swath through some of the densest parts of North America to build a highway is too much.

    However, I would say that completing Autoroute 25 is a good thing and so would be extending some highways such as 19 northward, 35 south to the border, and maybe even A-720 as a tunnel/trench under the Jacques-Cartier and eastward until Souligny.

     

    On the flip side, we need to accelerate metro station construction even if it means diverting some funds from things such as subsidized daycare (7$ -> 10$ won't kill anyone) or increasing gas tax.

    I know Malek and Cyrus are going to come out guns blazing at me, but i'd pay 10 cents more at the pump if that dime per litre went 100% into metro construction.

     

    We need 20 new stations and we need them now! At the rate we're going, we'll see 1-2 measly stations every decade if we're lucky.

    Autoroute - Pont de la 25 (2011)

    dans Complétés

    Posté(e) · Modifié par Cataclaw

    Traffic is good, it supports densification of the surrounding land-use ;) What is so sprawly of Atlanta or Phoenix as compared to Montreal? They have a bigger geographical footprint but also a bigger population... drive up the 15, it is basically a consistent urban development for a really long distance, and the Champlain bridge congestion stretches out to A-35 in the morning... we have plenty sprawl here ;)

     

    Atlanta density: 1,552/km2

    Phoenix density: 1,188.4/km2

     

    Montreal density: 4,439/km2

     

    A typical suburb in Atlanta (actually not even a suburb but part of Atlanta itself and barely 5km from downtown)

    urban1.jpg

     

    A typical suburb in Montreal (Longueuil)

    urban2.jpg

     

    Now do you see my point? You can debate it all you like, but the numbers and pictures don't lie. They're facts. Then again, you never seem to acknowledge I may be right about anything, ever. ;)

     

    Phoenix and Hotlanta must be doing pretty well in "quality of life" as well since they have very rapid population growth as well

     

    Dude, that's ridiculous. There is no correlation between population growth and quality of life. Have you been to Africa lately?

     

    My opinion is just demand-based... if an infrastructure is failing then it isn't good... As for 14 lanes, they have it in Toronto and there is plenty urban in TO ;)

     

    TO has fewer highways but they have more lanes, so it's about the same.

     

    Finally something we can agree on: falling infrastructure is bad. We can both agree that serious investments need to be made all across the Montreal region. Fixing highways, roads, bridges and bike paths alike.

    (And while you're at it, double the lanes on A-15/20 between Turcot and Champlain. Two is nonsensical.)

    Autoroute - Pont de la 25 (2011)

    dans Complétés

    Posté(e)

    Pas une grosse perte, ce quartier est une poubelle

     

    Justement. Si on veut l'améliorer, c'est pas comme ça qu'on va y arriver..

     

    De Laval à la Métropolitaine, ok. Mais après ça, on coupe à travers des quartiers parmis les plus denses de l'amérique du nord... ça serait totalement fou! La seule option c'est en tunnel ou pas du tout!

    Autoroute - Pont de la 25 (2011)

    dans Complétés

    Posté(e) · Modifié par Cataclaw

    I think probably the biggest reason it didn't increase congestion was that it actually improved the capacity of the corridor, because the road had been closed for years at that point :P

     

    I know it can be hard to accept, it's certainly counter-intuitive, but believe or not, removing road capacity can sometimes increase efficiency and reduce congestion by the law of induced demand.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_demand

    Thousands of studies around the world have shown that in certain cases (and i stress -- in certain cases -- not everywhere) adding capacity puts more cars on the road and ultimately increases traffic, and vice versa.

     

     

    I don't get the ugly / dirty / unattractive / intimidiating structure issue, if anything, it was prettier than that ugly building, boom :P If anything that is not intrinsic but just an issue of design of the road and maintenance. Plus it must have given a nice view of the area when driving up on top. If a highway is intrinsically intimidating, how is a train rushing at you not?

     

    The elevated highway physically and visually cut off the waterfront from the rest of the city. A highway is never an attractive scene for a pedestrian. By opening up the area and lowering the road to surface-level, views were restored, connections were improved, noise, air and visual pollution reduced and overall quality of life improved.

     

    In an ideal world, highways should never cut through dense urban areas -- ever. It's always bad, 100% of the time, from an urban point of view.

    In an ideal world, urban highways should always be tunnels.

     

    I wouldn't suggest a freeway along Ste-Catherine since the cost of expropriation would be high and it is already close to the Ville-Marie... there is a need for improved circulation in/around the downtown core, it would be interesting perhaps to revisit the old idea of putting a freeway underneath the mountain, and there is need for improvements in the N-S direction, maybe the old plan of a Decarie-style arrangement along Papineau (A-19) would be nice, it sure would at rush hour, that thing is nuts.

     

    What?! You'd have to demolish a giant swath of city to build the A-19 along Papineau.. the destruction would be catastrophic. Not to mention you would utterly rape the quality of life in the area and create a variety of physical, visual and psychological barriers. Do it in a tunnel (if we had the cash) and sure, not a problem. But above-ground? No way in hell... that's just madness!

     

    I've never argued for "100% cars" but for people to have access to infrastructure that meets their needs and means.

    Re: law of induced demand.

    If we kept adding car capacity until everyone's needs were met (0 traffic anywhere at any time) every highway in and around Montreal would be a 14-lane highway. So in addition to destroying tens of thousands of homes and buildings, increasing air pollution, increasing noise pollution, increasing physical barriers and reducing pedestrian and urban quality of life, you'd be promoting sprawl. Do you know why more "urban" cities (such as Vancouver and Montreal) consistently score higher on quality of life studies than their more sprawl-ish suburban counterparts (such as Atlanta or Phoenix)? It's because these cities are more dense, have better transit, have vibrant inner-cores that aren't spread out, etc etc. There a million factors to be sure, but don't kid yourself for one second, the ones I just mentioned are absolutely critical and contribute to a variety of other benefits as well.

     

    Peak oil is here. Cars are great and should stay a part of our lives, but there are (occasionally better) alternatives in many situations and we need to explore them. It's time to embrace transit-oriented development and high-density-driven urban development/smart growth.

     

    Yes to cars, yes to fixing highways, yes to completing the missing links in Montreal's network (A-30, A-25, A-640, etc.) but NO to out-of-control highway building. Highways yes, but in moderation -- intelligently.

     

    There, i've said my piece... nothing i hadn't said on mtlurb before either. I doubt i'll convince you, Cyrus, and that's fine. I respect your point of view if you respect mine. Understand that I do see the merits of highways as engines of economic growth. It's no luxury car, but I do love my Focus ZX5, and I love a drive in the country like anybody else. But you must also see my side of things as an urban planner -- too much of anything is never good! That goes for highways too!

    Autoroute - Pont de la 25 (2011)

    dans Complétés

    Posté(e)

    2 lanes is not plenty, and its not boulevard grade.

     

    It's 3 lanes (+turning lanes) and it is surface level. It's even got pedestrian paths, bike paths and surface light rail!

    Would this work everywhere? Not necessarily. I wouldn't see this happening on Notre-Dame, for example, because the Port de Montreal is there. But in places where the conditions are good, why not?

     

    http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=37.795068,-122.393703&spn=0.013158,0.033023&z=16&layer=c&cbll=37.794935,-122.393581&panoid=uiKmlhqasmnGjQag_p2KcA&cbp=12,321.46,,0,6.55

     

    moi moi moi moi yes, j'espère qu'il pleuvera pas lol :-)

    Je suis tout équipé en plus pour le faire :)

     

    Nice xD

    Autoroute - Pont de la 25 (2011)

    dans Complétés

    Posté(e)

    Le samedi 21 et le dimanche 22 mai, vous pourrez utiliser le pont A25 gratuitement!

    C’est une occasion en or pour venir l’essayer et vous familiariser avec ce nouveau lien, particulièrement si vous n’avez pas eu la chance de participer à notre événement de la semaine dernière. Soyez parmi les premiers à avoir traversé le pont!

     

    Qui est volontaire pour aller filmer un "drive-by" video et le mettre sur youtube? :D

    Autoroute - Pont de la 25 (2011)

    dans Complétés

    Posté(e) · Modifié par Cataclaw

    bof un exemple, avec un timing opportun.

     

    Je peux te donner l'exemple des 100 villes américaines qui ont abandonnées les rues pédestres.... mais ça personne n'en parle.

     

    That's because most American cities are too suburban in nature and car-dependent for pedestrian (or in this case urban boulevards) to work.

    Fortunately San Francisco is a more "urban" city with more public transportation, fewer vacant lots, higher density buildings, better height-width ratios, better street enclosure, etc etc etc.

    The reduction of road capacity in order to provide a higher quality of life was made possible because of these factors. It wouldn't work just anywhere.

     

    As a general rule I stand by my first comment.

     

    Dude.. you're nuts lol. If Montreal proposed to bulldoze all of Sainte-Catherine street including all buildings and skyscrapers along it to build a 8-lane highway, would you be in favor? If you answer yes, you've officially lost all credibility. I dare you ;)

    Seriously though, you had an ugly multi-level highway blocking San Francisco from its waterfront. The structure was dirty, unattractive and intimidating. Now you've got a beautiful boulevard with plenty of car lanes still, as well as tram, bike, and pedestrian paths. Not to mention, visually everything looks so much better now. You can actually see the waterfront! Are you seriously telling me this project was a mistake?

     

    By your own admission you don't how much about the current arrangement of automobile transportation in the area. Well, i do :) I've studied San Francisco at university. The reason why congestion didn't increase despite the reduction in capacity is because: 1) the elimination of that highway eliminated the incentive for car use (mostly for frequent users of that road) 2) public transit was installed/improved 3) many users switched from predominantly using their cars to transit instead.

     

    Could this work everywhere, all the time? No.. it's more complicated than just tearing down roads and building transit. All the variables have to be just right for such a project to work. Luckily for San Francisco, they were. So i reject your statement that removing an interchange and replacing it with an at-grade intersection is automatically bad. Having studied these things at depth for 4 years, i'm quite convinced that many times, it's just the opposite. Take for example Montreal's Park-Pine interchange, one of Montreal's own success stories.

     

    When it comes to transportation, it's all about balance. You need cars, absolutely, but you also need pedestrians, cyclists, trams, buses, subways, airplanes, light rail, commuter rail and inter-city trains. Sometimes you guys seem to be 100% about the cars and I honestly think that 100% cars at the expense of everything else leads to poor urban design and ultimately wasted resources and lower quality of life.

    Autoroute - Pont de la 25 (2011)

    dans Complétés

    Posté(e)

    Right! That was back then!

     

    But now today, the new surface-level urban boulevard complete with tram and bike paths is nearly universally praised and widely regarded by people the world over as an outstanding example of urban improvement in the area of transportation infrastructure. Citizens, visitors, foreigners and experts alike now regard this as a model for better urban living in nearly every regard. In other words, it was a great success.

     

    A lot of people were against the project at the time because they feared what it would do to traffic. When the expected traffic congestion never materialized (on the Embarcadero or any other neighboring road for that matter) people realized what they had just accomplished and grew ecstatic over their new and improved corridor.

     

    Evidemment ca demure assez fou de demanteler un carrefour denivelle sans le remplacer! Faut le faire...

     

    So I say again : San Francisco would like a word with you ;)

×
×
  • Créer...