geraldshaw

3 hours ago, SameGuy said:

There is nothing wrong with condos and rentals right alongside rapid transit lines, whether the buildings were there before the line, or densification began after the line was established. Vancouver is a more vertical city than Montreal, but there will come a day when areas like Fairview and Panama and Kirkland might look like this, and it’s a future I’m hoping happens. This video is from Metro Vancouver’s SkyTrain approaching Brentwood Station in Burnaby, one of many rapidly changing station areas in the region. The new development at the end is where a mall parking lot used to be.

[video h/t @BrentToderian via Twitter]

HAMILTON ONTARIO'S TRAM LINE PROPOSAL WOULD WORK ON R-L / SHERBROOKE ST. 

27 minutes ago, SameGuy said:

J’ai dit “better”. Le Train de l’est est “anything but better.”

Le reste du monde semble comprendre la différence entre les trains de banlieue/régionaux et les métros urbains automatisés, mais d'une manière ou d'une autre, nous devons construire de minuscules tramways automatisés avec une capacité minime pour faire fonctionner des lignes de banlieue radiales to/from le centre-ville. This is not the answer either.

Again, $10+ billion invested to improve and modernise suburban/regional rail would benefit far more people throughout the metropolis from Day One than REM-B’s “133,000 passengers a day in 2044.” 

5 hours ago, p_xavier said:

Le train de l'Est est un fiasco dans tous les sens, cher à opérer avec un long trajet et le CN veut pas plus de trains. C'est quoi tu proposes?

The Caisse Infra consultation report is a cruel farce. Like a doctor giving his patient  all sorts of photographic  reasons why he will be so much better off in the future   while omitting what his double leg  amputation will look like. They must think Montrealers are  reckless dummies. The PR  release is an insult to all who love Montreal. 

15 minutes ago, montrealgoalie said:

Maybe if you repeat it another 10 times, it might come true!

Do you think?

6 hours ago, champdemars said:

Ces rendus n’existent probablement pas. Simplement parce qu’ils ne sont pas rendus là, l’équipe d’architectes venant à peine d’être embauché la semaine dernière. Aussi simple que ça. Pas de complot en vue.

If 6 months after the announcement of REM Est and a promotional web site with no drawings of  the post REM Est R-L - if R-L drawings do not exist now, the project is a non-starter.

18 hours ago, Né entre les rapides said:

Of course, too costly and not possible are two different things.  For the sake of this discussion, I am open to set aside considerations of technical feasibility (i.e. is it possible?), and focus solely on the issue of  cost effectiveness.

But I do have a  problem with the proposition whereby "... we, the public, can decide for ourselves what it is that we consider too costly".  Here is why: the concept of "the public" is very broad.  In a democratic political regime, governments are elected under the principle of "one person one vote" : that's fine in regards of matters of broad policy orientations, but not so much for specific projects which stand to benefit a comparatively small minority but would be paid for by the majority.  Those who would benefit are much more likely to be vocal (in support of a project) than the others (who could be somewhat shy in expressing their opposition).  The resulting "voice of the people" will be skewed.  It remains up to the decision-makers to pass a judgement as to which project deserves  support or not.  

 

100% correct. And documentation to date by Caisse-Infra web site, omits totally any artist's rendition of what R-L will look like from Robert-Bourassa east for several kms. And the stations. If there is such a good project why hide the design / mock up /  pictures which are worth thousands of words? Why is the Caisse-Infra being so shy?  Perhaps, just perhaps the reason is that the Caisse knows, having seen the mock-ups internally, that the  public outcry of mocking the Caisse for ever  proposing a monstrosity is just too painful for the managers of our pension money to contemplate. The public call for resignations would be shattering to so many egos in the Caisse.  And there would/will be calls for heads to roll for being so out of touch. I  expect REM-Est will be cancelled well before any drawings are ever made pubic.

49 minutes ago, Né entre les rapides said:

En effet.  Le BAPE consulte et informe.  Il ne décide pas.  

So the BAPE rejects building an elevated platform with noisy trains and ugly  shoe box stations along R-L with a scathing report - how many politicians in the east of Montreal  do you really expect to go on to  fight for REM-Est?  

2 hours ago, Enalung said:

I'm not so sure about that. I do agree that there's a number of problems with the REM B, but ultimately, there's been pressure to get a project to serve Montreal East and Nord for so long that the desire to have this project might ultimately prevail over the apprehension many have. There's also a very real hunger and hope for more after the seeing REM A get announced and built in such a short time span. If anything, I'm actually far more concerned about the possibility that there's a strong enough desire for this project that it could ultimately make it to the build phase with those poor connections we've talked about many times.

The BAPE is an  eco-zealot  QUANGO  -  a British term - abbreviation -  a   QUANGO is a Quasi Autonomous Government Organization. There is no hope for REM-Est, none.

3 hours ago, montrealgoalie said:

lol beat me to it

the BAPE is just a smoke show, nothing's going to happen

Don't tell the BAPE that. They have huge powers and the kind of multiple reasons for rejection that their  REM Est report will declare will be the end of the story.   And the politicians will fall all over it with fulsome praise  -  those in Montreal who  do not,  will lose their seats.

BAPE finds fatal red flags in the  majority  of their decisions.  REM-Est is going to cause BAPE to write a  damning report that has an historic number of red flags. This is obvious -  one only has to look at previous BAPE rejections. REM - Est  dies with BAPE.

It is ironical  that my being labelled  'the sky is falling Chicken little', came after I posted a picture of the Mexico City metro's overhead line having collapsed  from the sky killing 28 people, with a reaction that mocked the idea of deaths in transportation use  - saying - just  get used to it - that people die in transportation accidents.   The municipal and provincial  politicians  would love to have our colleague here on video for their campaign  re stopping  REM Est.  

2 hours ago, SameGuy said:

You must be new to the interwebs if you perceive any comments in response to your Chicken Little routine as "rudeness." But thanks for playing.

Wikipedia - Chicken Little film -- Storyline:   Ridiculed by the animal inhabitants of the peaceful Oakey Oaks community for his absurd notion that the sky is falling, the well-meaning young chicken, Chicken Little, promises to prove everyone wrong.

3 minutes ago, montrealgoalie said:

Not even comparable

Besides most of those buildings came up after the gardiner

That's precisely the problem  -- Toronto decided not to bury the Gardiner via a turn out to under the harbour. The developers went to town as they should, with profitable development on both sides of the Gardiner, as would happen in Montreal. Surely we can agree that Toronto and its Gardner --  creates the ugliest down town business core of any city in Canada. REM-Est wants to emulate that. The vast majority of  Montrealers have no interest in becoming another Toronto.   Those in minority and fans of REM-est --   should it not be called le Jardineur Est de Montreal Est  are not going to get their dream. 

6 minutes ago, SameGuy said:

You must be new to the interwebs if you perceive any comments in response to your Chicken Little routine as "rudeness." But thanks for playing.

Talk about trolling. Just be polite. Your credibility is lessened with name calling.

REM-Est will be a 2020s elevated train version of the  Gardiner Expressway in Toronto. Cutting the downtown in two and making an ugly mess that Toronto did in the 1950's. Have we learned nothing?

10 hours ago, Né entre les rapides said:

It's not very kind of you to say that to @geraldshaw, or to anyone else for that matter.  However, and thankfully, there are very few condo towers on R-L east of Robert-Bourassa (the projected end of the line for the REM de l'Est).  In the Downtown core, most towers are hosting offices and hotels (which is not to say that their occupants will not be affected).  The only (residential) condos that I am aware of (east of R-B) are located far away, one at the corner of Labelle and the other at Wolfe. 

You should rather be sorry for the ruined potential for new condos springing up along R-L eastern leg.  Regardless, I still do not believe that this nightmare will materialize.

Thanks. The more supporters of the REM-Est  above ground R-L option  use rudeness  and schadenfreude - the faster they  erase whatever credibility their  views might bring.

2 hours ago, SameGuy said:

Around 2000 people die on Canadian roads every year, so I guess we should stop building roads and ban cars. Mass rapid transit is the safest form of transportation there is. Your position is silly. I’d understand the shitposting if you were shorting stock and were desperate not to get that margin call, but what end does scaremongering serve in this case?

Rather than being rude and emotional, surely, given that your are  highly experienced in transportation knowledge -- that since the December 2020  smoke screen announcement of REM est  by the Caisse Infra,  you shall have figured out that REM Est -   above R-L with tracks and noise and views and street commerce destroyed --   was a non starter from the very beginning.  I am puzzled why you are such a cheerleader? Please tell us why.

3 hours ago, ToxiK said:

We had 2 overpasses collapses in the 2000's, and still we're building more of those.  Planes crashe every few years and still people fly.  People die in car crashes everyday and there are more cars on the road every year. 

The Mexico accident won't have any effect.

28 dead in a metro overpass and crash "won't have any effect"? Ask the Caisse-Infra and the Minister of Transport, the Mayor of Montreal if they care less,  regarding this transportation  tragedy. I think they care more and greatly so, not less.  

1 hour ago, FrodoMTL said:

Maybe missing something here, but I honestly fail to see how the Mexico crash has anything to do with REM and Montreal's situation. Maybe let's cut the fear mongering and sensationalism a bit?

A picture is worth a thousand words. Whether it is  28 killed in the capital city of Mexico's metro or 24 kids being   shot and killed in a public school in Connecticut - the Mexico City  tragedy is broadcast around the world and causes opinions to change. The pollsters will be onto the topic of an elevated REM on R-L  and Sherbrooke Street East during the 2 upcoming elections. The accident in Mexico will be portrayed as  dangerous and uber ugly  and noisy  by the environmental zealots pounding day after day on social media with pictures of the Mexico City collapse. crash   down to the street level. It is so obvious that REM est will be blocked by public resistance and as voters speak, It is a no brainer - I cannot understand why so many here love the REM-Est and have not folded their tents on this very bad project. 

This Mexico City picture of a crash says it all  - on a straight line not a curved one  -  should end all talk of an above ground line on R-L. The eco-zealots will now unite to  try to stop the project before the  2021 municipal elections and certainly  try a coup de grace well before  the 2022 provincial elections.

20 minutes ago, Enalung said:

Mexico has a very unusual problem which may have had an impact on their metro system. The entire city is slowly sinking as they pump underground water. The sinking is very uneven which results in everything on the surface getting warped and twisted. The sinking is so bad thar the old sewage trench started flowing backward at one point. You can imagine the results of that... (yes, they really did have a literal sewage trench until very recently). Mexico is pumping all of the underground water because it has very few other sources of water, but mexico is also leaking a lot of water to broken water pipes as a result of all that water pumping. As if that wasn't bad enough, a large portion of the city is built over an old lake bottom. Lake bottoms aren't particularly know for having stable soil. It's just a series of problems that compound on each other.

I hear you. The public does not know that Mexico City was built on a swamp while Montreal was built on  hard rock  shale. Accidents with  many dead create public bias -if and  when REM est   presents a model to scale if its project, the reaction to the above ground derailment will be fierce. I can see protests. Note often forgotten Montreal is in an earthquake zone and has been part of rules in the  building code since the early 60s.

https://news.yahoo.com/subway-train-derails-mexico-city-052949620.html

Mexican subway  with open air sections crashes due to the collapse of an overpass. Say what you want about Mexico, but here in Quebec we have had a fair share in the world of unsafe overpass bridges. REM-est's   model will never happen.

The fact is that REM-Est is becoming a distraction and discussions about it are a  farce.  The REM-Est "plan" was released in December 2020 in order  to distract attention from  huge  REM-1 cost overruns and the  shake up at the Caisse-Infra and to put pressure on a deal for the airport.

For the Caisse - Mission Accomplished.  REM-Est was always a smoke screen  and  never a real project and it still is not. 

PVM was Montreal's "signature" skyscraper for decades. I have always wondered why its steel girder frame could not have 20 or so storeys added, like the Sun Life building was made taller in three top up  stages.  The result would be awesome.

Surely it is preferable from an aesthetic point of view to get the 6 or 7  uber ugly parking lots in the downtown  core developed with nicely designed medium sized buildings.    The worst example of an ugly  parking lot being Guy south of Sherbrooke. That lot has been there since the 1950's -- every development plan that is announced never gets built.