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well, if this tower falls to nimbyism, maybe we can make a pitch for it to be built on 1300 r-l :stirthepot:

 

now, that would be a skyline altering venture!

 

 

seriously though, from cataclaw's rendering, it does not seem too close ... it might alter the effect, esp. when coming in from new jersey but come on .. sounds like the mount royal debate really: it's 100% arbitrary.

 

personally, i think this would make a gorgeous addition to the manhattan skyline .. the way things are at the moment, the empire state building does sit kind of by itself, being surrounded by manhattan low rises (ie, 80-100m :silly:) .. maybe some kind of bylaw could restrain construction around it as to preserve it's status as an historic skyscraper.. i know midtown manhattan is ridiculously full as it is and probably needs to expand south somewhat, but imo the city should start and try to build higher on the shores of queens and in the downtown brooklyn area ..

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je regardes le rendu moi la .. cet edifice n'aurait pas alors le plus haut etage/plancher dans tout new york ? l'empire state le depasserait, mais juste avec sa "spire" .. le toit de cet tour serait clairement plus haut que le "toit" de l'ESB..

 

ps, je l'aime bien moi, le design de la tour ... relativement classique, ce qui convient bien a l'ensemble new yorkais... j'aime pas mal mieux ca que des trucs style bank of america tower qui donnent l'impression que les architectes ont manque d'idees .... ..

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Quick ramble/rant in English:

 

The reason Midtown surpassed lower Manhattan as the largest office market in New York (circa 1950s?) was not due to a lack of potential space for development in lower Manhattan, but due to the absolute lack of mixed uses in downtown. Prospective tenants were lured by the luxury of the actual restaurants and entertainment venues found in Midtown. The west 30s don't really offer much of that, cheesy fabric stores, low rent office space, etc.

 

Midtown office buildings originally clustered around the 42st corridor and moved up Park Avenue/Madison/Lexington, always with Grand Central as the locus of development. Even with Penn Station greeting three times as many commuters as GCT, premier developments still go up in the GCT area. The transportation infrastructure reflects that reality: most of the premier class-A space is within easy walking distance of GCT or can easily be accessed (without transfers from GCT) via the Shuttle or the Lexington Avenue line.

 

I don't buy that Vornado is going to be able to sign enough big tenants willing to lease class-A space in the boonies of Midtown. Obviously, Vornado is making a big wager that the expansion of Penn Station changes the calculus of the Midtown Manhattan office market, so that they can leverage their holdings with Penn Plaza/Madison Square Garden, Manhattan Mall (ex Gimbels), and the Hotel Pennsylvania. I don't see it; Penn Station is just not in a great location. The Empire State Building itself was built with the expectation that it would shift midtown's center of gravity southward - It didn't. (Incidentally, the poor location is probably why the building seems to lord over its area so majestically.) You're not likely to see the upper-crust denizens of Westchester and Greenwich (which are served by the Metro-North railroad into Grand Central) clamoring to install their company offices around Penn. Hell, even the Long Island Railroad (which only serves Penn, currently) is finishing construction of their East-Side Access tunnels, so as to facilitate service to Grand Central.

 

In any case, I don't see why the city and state is bending over backwards to help Vornado. If things pass as I expect, we'll get another shitty Penn Station with a sports arena grafted onto it, per Vornado's demand, build some more shitty office space and commercial developments comparable to Vornado's own Manhattan Mall (read: poorly renovated, low rent, underutilized). I also imagine that they'll tear down the Hotel Pennsylvania, and then figure out that they have no anchor tenants.

 

New York is easily as frustrating as Montreal.

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While you make some interesting points, i don't completely agree with your premise.

 

Midtown's center of gravity is shifting towards the Hudson with redevelopment of the yards and the extension of the Flushing line (7) subway. You make it sound like Penn Station and the immediate vicinity is a total no-man's land. There are still the A,C,E and 1,2,3 lines immediately surrounding the site. Subway on 6th, 7th and 8th avenue means there's access.

 

I agree that the bulk of the action is more to the north/north-east, but this project will help spur development in some areas that could use it. It's a risky venture, perhaps, but one that could yield considerable dividends.

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