Entrevue avec Bernard Landry L'avenir de Montréal, l'avenir du Québec

[MTLskyline]

MTLskyline: McGuinty has a very strange way of getting elected, he is very boring and I think it paralyses people to vote for him... that said, the Ontario PC's used to be known as "Big Blue Machine" because that party won every damn election in Ontario with only a handful of exceptions, like Rae and McGuinty, or hell let's look on Wikipedia:

 

LMAO!

 

LOL, No wonder Ontario's economy was so much better than Quebec's during the same period. Now with McGuinty in charge, they are playing some catchup to us. Slightly better for our competitivity I suppose.

[MTLskyline]

CCE? Yes it was a mistake that every govt does, getting involved in the private sector... have you already forgot the billions spent on the auto industry by the CPC in Ontario????

At least the billions spent on the auto industry keeps jobs in Canada. All the PQ's CCE project did was move people around.

 

At least the CCE (and the project to attract the Multimedia sectore to Montreal) has worked and is doing wonders to Montreal's economy and world image. So I guess that mistake is lessened big time.

Meanwhile, during the same time, the PQ neglected many of the traditional industries letting them slowly die. Look what happened to places like Huntingdon.

 

If those towers were empty, then it would be a totally different story.

Well these new ones aren't but you don't think space in other buildings was emptied in order to fill the new towers? That's not creating jobs. Its moving the jobs around.

 

Let's see how long that auto sector will remain in Ontario even after the bailout, our currency is much stronger than it was when those plants were built, and it seems that in a not so distant future our currency might even be stronger...

The auto industry will be in Ontario for quite a few years I would imagine. The top plants in North America are all in southern Ontario. And don't forget that Canada still has the advantage of public healthcare (private healthcare coverage is part of the unions contract with the automakers in the US) And the dollar will never be that much stronger. You are acting like we will be at parity or greater in the long-term. Don't you remember less than 10 years ago when a Canadian dollar was worth only $0.62USD?

[MTLskyline]

There's al lot of stagnation in Montreal, stil today, for good and bad reasons, therefor it is necessary, in my book, that the goverment steps in and tries to boost things up otherwise we could be waiting forever. If we we're stagnating then there must have been a good reason because the private sector would have simply taken over.

Your argument would make sense of Montreal was managed by fiscal conservatives for the past couple of decades. It has been managed by those sympathetic to large amounts of government intervention for most of its post-war history. What makes you think that even more intervention will help anything?

 

 

In a perfect world the private sector would have taken care of it but if it didn't then that must be because there was a reason. I think every goverment would rather see the private sector built such buildings but if it is not doing it then someone has to step in at one point. What is keeping them from doing it at this time in 2010 ?

If no private enterprises built any towers during that time, it means that there was no market for new Class A downtown office space (especially in that amount). We don't need the government stepping in to build us skyscrapers if the private sector decides it's unfeasible.

 

 

I fully agree with you and i dont understand why it hasn't been done to this day. Charest had plenty of time to do it especially when pushed in the back by ADQ but he decided to do nothing and we are still stuck with a heavy civil servant weight on our shoulder. That issue is beyond my understanding.

And Charest also promised to lower taxes and curb government spending. We all know how that ended up. Charest has proven that he is the same kind of tax and spend liberal that his predecessors were. Any hint of Progressive-Conservative left in him is assuredly gone. I think the ADQ deserve a chance at forming government.

 

But Landry is right when mentionning about the feds working ''against'' Montreal and when that happens someone else has to intervene just like many ''goverment officials'' are now trying to save Shell's oil refinery in the east end.

This is an interesting statement. In the ROC, they always talk about the federal government favouring Montreal/Quebec, and here its the reverse (that Montreal and Quebec are not treated fairly). There is a bit of truth to both sides, frankly.

 

At the end, the Cité du Multi-média was a good thing because the private sector has now taken over with the constructions of condos and the area is much better today than it was before Landry.

The area is certainly a much more desirable area than what it was (which wasn't very desirable). It did, as you indicated, end up kick-starting private development in the area. But from a strictly fiscal conservative perspective, it was just another example of the government meddling in a private industry (real estate) it had no business in.

 

But, because so many factors has played against Montreal over the past 60 years i think it is only normal that the goverment has step in at times in order to assure that Montreal wouldn't be declining. Despite all the negative factors, i think Montreal did very well. Many cities which have been trough lot less has suffered much more than Montreal to the point where their decline is almost irreversible. Detroit, Cleveland, St-Louis, Buffalo, Baltimore (thanks for the intervention of the feds because this city would be gone), Kansas city and to a lesser degree Cincinnati, Philadelphia and Pittsburgh.

 

Montreal is far from declining even if it sometimes stagnate....

I'm not exactly content with stagnation.

 

You are right that Montreal is far from declining, and that it is not in the same league as Detroit and the like. However, I'm not satisfied with just stagnating year after year. I want growth. Fiscal belt tightening is the only way to get there (as is ignoring NIMBYS). We need to make ourselves a more competitive place to do business (lower corporate taxes for all business, big subsidies to certain industries are not needed).

[Cyrus]

It is important to note there is a huge federal presence in Montreal, I mean there are federal buildings everywhere, even federal roads! How many other Canadian cities have federally-maintained and operated major roads?

 

As I recall, Charest was interested in belt-tightening until after the election when he was heavily "beat down" by the typical union mobs here... I once had hopes for the ADQ but they blew it soundly, that is just a corpse. ADQ's big problem was they would offer some fiscal conservative opinions and go up in polls, then give other wasteful suggestions and go down... instead of going into the wide space to the right of the PLQ they tried to fight between the Pequistes and liberals. Though there has been talk of a new party to arise.

Modifié 28 juillet 2010 par Cyrus

[Malek]

MTLSKYLINE: après la fermeture hier d'une usine GM dans le sud de l'ontario, voila que Ford ferme une usine à moteur... disons que la tendance (trend) n'est pas favorable au secteur automobile en Ontario. Et je parle pas des 3-4 dernières années, je parle de la tendance ces 20+ dernières années.

 

http://www.radio-canada.ca/regions/Ontario/2010/07/29/001-ford-windsor.shtml

 

Et quand tu dis que les jobs multimédias ont déplacer des jobs d'ailleurs, je vais mettre ça sur ton ignorance. As-tu vu l'âge moyen des gens qui travaillent dans cet industrie??? La plus part était encore à l'école quand le programme as été mis sur pied.

 

C'est complètement un nouveau secteur économique qui a été mis sur place, pas seulement des subventions pour de nouveaux emplois, mais des subventions aux écoles pour créer des programmes de formation pour cette nouvelle main d'oeuvre.

Modifié 29 juillet 2010 par Malek

[Cyrus]

MTLSKYLINE: après la fermeture hier d'une usine GM dans le sud de l'ontario, voila que Ford ferme une usine à moteur... disons que la tendance (trend) n'est pas favorable au secteur automobile en Ontario. Et je parle pas des 3-4 dernières années, je parle de la tendance ces 20+ dernières années.

 

Peut-etre si tu consideres uniquement les "amerloques"...

 

Honda a construit leur usine d'assemblage a Alliston en 1986 (Honda Civic / CSX), un deuxieme usine en 1998 (Acura MDX et ZDX, Civic berline) et un usine de fabrication des moteurs (pour la Civic) en 2008...

 

Toyota a construit leur usine a Cambridge (Corolla et Matrix) en 1988, ont fait deux expansions depuis (notamment "Cambridge South" en 1999, Lexus RX), et a construit un autre usine a Woodstock (RAV4) qui a ouvert en 2008. Toyota possede aussi un usine des jantes en aluminium dans la Colombie-Britannique depuis 1983.

Modifié 29 juillet 2010 par Cyrus

[MTLskyline]

MTLSKYLINE: après la fermeture hier d'une usine GM dans le sud de l'ontario, voila que Ford ferme une usine à moteur... disons que la tendance (trend) n'est pas favorable au secteur automobile en Ontario. Et je parle pas des 3-4 dernières années, je parle de la tendance ces 20+ dernières années.

 

http://www.radio-canada.ca/regions/Ontario/2010/07/29/001-ford-windsor.shtml

Are car plant closings a phenomenon unique to Ontario? I think not. Quebec used to have the GM plant in Ste-Therese and Hyundai had a plant in Bromont. The GM plant closed in 2002 when M. Landry was premier (Pauline Marois was finance minister) and the Hyundai closed its plant in 1994 when Jacques Parizeau was premier (Pauline Marois was also finance minister at that time).

 

Et quand tu dis que les jobs multimédias ont déplacer des jobs d'ailleurs, je vais mettre ça sur ton ignorance. As-tu vu l'âge moyen des gens qui travaillent dans cet industrie??? La plus part était encore à l'école quand le programme as été mis sur pied.

 

C'est complètement un nouveau secteur économique qui a été mis sur place, pas seulement des subventions pour de nouveaux emplois, mais des subventions aux écoles pour créer des programmes de formation pour cette nouvelle main d'oeuvre.

Are you saying that there was nobody employed in the industry the day before the Cite Multimedia or the CCE were built, but somehow as soon as they opened there were a few thousand new jobs? There was no such thing as a multimedia sector in ~1999? How come class a vacancy rates increased in Montreal after these new buildings opened? Weird coincidence?

[Cyrus]

Are car plant closings a phenomenon unique to Ontario? I think not. Quebec used to have the GM plant in Ste-Therese and Hyundai had a plant in Bromont. The GM plant closed in 2002 when M. Landry was premier (Pauline Marois was finance minister) and the Hyundai closed its plant in 1994 when Jacques Parizeau was premier (Pauline Marois was also finance minister at that time).

 

Hahahahaha you want to make fun about Quebec government finger-meddling and wasting taxpayer dollars for nothing? Bromont Hyundai Sonata plant! That plant opened in 1990 and closed in '94, say much? Now Hyundai built a new factory in Alabama to make the Sonata (2004).

 

At least Ste.Therese GM plant (it was in the NW quadrant of the 15/640 interchange) opened in 1965 and closed on Aug. 29 2002 (poor Firebird ) There's another meddling, remember the 100 million dollar "best in the world" painting plant, they put that in '92 so they could get the F-car contract... has GM yet repaid all those zero-interest loans from Ottawa and Quebec?

Modifié 29 juillet 2010 par Cyrus

[MTLskyline]

Hahahahaha you want to make fun about Quebec government finger-meddling and wasting taxpayer dollars for nothing? Bromont Hyundai Sonata plant! That plant opened in 1990 and closed in '94, say much? Now Hyundai built a new factory in Alabama to make the Sonata (2004).

More proof that subsidies are a waste of taxpayers' money!

 

At least Ste.Therese GM plant (it was in the NW quadrant of the 15/640 interchange) opened in 1965 and closed on Aug. 29 2002 (poor Firebird ) There's another meddling, remember the 100 million dollar "best in the world" painting plant, they put that in '92 so they could get the F-car contract... has GM yet repaid all those zero-interest loans from Ottawa and Quebec?

I suppose all outstanding money owed by the old GM to its creditors (pre-bankruptcy) were not carried over to the new GM. We need some politicians who believe in Reaganomics running things!

[Cyrus]

I loved this post on Richard3's blog:

 

http://richard3.wordpress.com/

 

En tant que personne appartenant au peuple, on se surprend toujours des nouvelles inventions du gouvernement, en termes de formules linguistiques, dans le but de nous faire avaler la pilule. Merci à Twitter, je suis tombé sur une chronique de David Descôteaux, publiée sur son blogue, bien sûr, mais aussi dans le journal Métro. Son texte s’appelle “Mensonges et subventions”. Voici un extrait plutôt éloquent.

 

“Chaque jour qui passe me rappelle à quel point le gouvernement nous prend pour des idiots – en jouant avec les mots.

 

Dans une récente chronique, je mentionnais que le gouvernement accorde maintenant des « prêts non remboursables » (ça ne s’invente pas!) à des entreprises. Traduction : vous « prêtez » des millions de vos impôts à IBM ou Warner Brothers, mais ces entreprises n’ont pas l’obligation de vous rembourser.”

 

De qu’ossé? Des “prêts non-remboursables”?

 

Vous en connaissez combien, des banques, qui vont vous avancer votre hypothèque sous forme de prêts non-remboursables, vous? Moi, je n’en connais pas; si vous en connaissez, contactez-moi, ça presse! (MDR!)

 

Pour reprendre une expression jadis chère à Jean-Luc Mongrain, le gouvernement “prend les enfants du bon Dieu pour des canards sauvages”! Non, mais franchement; des prêts non-remboursables! Ce n’est pas comme ça, que ça s’appelle; ça s’appelle des octrois, des subventions, des pots-de-vin, des bakchich, des rançons, des cadeaux, des retours d’ascenseur, mais PAS DES PRÊTS! Un prêt, ça se rembourse!

 

Encore faut-il que nos gouvernements s’occupent de se faire rembourser. Voici un autre extrait de l’article de David Descôteaux.

 

“Mais il y a pire. Une étude du Frontier Centre, un centre de recherche de Winnipeg, révèle que même l’argent que vous donnez aux multinationales sous forme de prêts « remboursables »… n’est pas remboursé!

 

Depuis 1982, Industrie Canada a prêté plus de 18 milliards de vos impôts – l’équivalent de 360 000 années de dur labeur au salaire annuel de 50 000 $ – à des centaines d’entreprises. Celles-ci sont habituellement bien connectées politiquement, ou situées dans des comtés où le gouvernement veut acheter des votes. Rien de grave direz-vous. Ce sont des prêts. L’argent nous reviendra, non?

 

Non.

 

En 28 ans, les entreprises canadiennes ont remboursé seulement 1,9 milliard des 18 milliards prêtés – à peine 10 % du total. Gardons en tête que ces prêts sont souvent accordés sans intérêt. Nous sacrifions donc collectivement des millions de dollars que nous aurions pu gagner en investissant cet argent ailleurs.

 

Pire : comme notre gouvernement est endetté, il doit emprunter sur les marchés – à environ 4% – pour trouver cet argent. La facture totale pour les contribuables dépasse donc de loin les 18 milliards « prêtés ».”

 

Qu’est-ce que vous en pensez, de celle-là?

 

Depuis 1982, c’est pas juste la faute à Harper, ça! Pendant ce temps-là, on s’arrache les cheveux de la tête, et on déchire nos chemises, sur les questionnaires de recensement. Bravo! (hahahaha)

 

Quand est-ce qu’un gouvernement mettra l’honnêteté, dans l’article 1 de son programme? J’ai bien peur que ce ne soit pas demain la veille!

 

En attendant, je vais tâcher de me dépomper…