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(CNN) -- From time to time, Sasha Raven Gross can be seen teetering around a neighborhood drinking hole. She flirts with strangers, talks gibberish and sometimes spins in circles for no apparent reason until she falls down. In one hand is her liquid of choice -- watered-down orange juice in a sippy cup.

 

The 14-month-old toddler is the sort of barfly who's at the center of a recurring and heated debate: Should parents be allowed to bring their babies and children to bars?

 

It is a question in Brooklyn, New York, that's fired up online arguments, prompted unofficial protests and made outsiders giggle. And while the issue may not be exclusive to that area, it's the stuff disputes are made of in what Sasha's dad, Matt Gross, calls the kid-heavy "greater stroller zone" of Park Slope and its surrounding neighborhoods.

 

Single hipsters and others without (and sometimes with) kids complain about being asked to watch their language, to not smoke outdoors near strollers and to keep their drunk friends under control so as not to scare the little ones. They don't want to feel pressure to play peekaboo. They want to cry over their beers, they say, without having an infant drown them out. If anyone is spitting up, they want it to be them.

 

"I will get up on the subway for kids. I will be tolerant of them kicking the back of my seat while seeing a G-rated movie. But let me have my bars," said Julieanne Smolinski, 26, who feels guilty sucking down suds in front of staring 5-year-olds. The adults who bring their offspring to bars, she suggests, are "clinging to their youth."

 

Parents, on the other hand, say that as long as they're responsible and their kids behave, they deserve the right to grab a quick drink with friends. And, they might add, in a place like New York -- where the cost of baby sitters can be prohibitive and tight living quarters can make hosting guests at home difficult -- they need places to hang out, too.

 

"As a stay-at-home dad, it can be kind of isolating. Bars, as much as they're places to drink, they're places to socialize and meet people," said Gross, 35, a freelance writer, an editor for the blog DadWagon and the columnist behind the Frugal Traveler in The New York Times. "I long for adult contact. ... I don't want to be excluded from the adult world."

 

But the divide remains wide in the blogosphere. Around 150 readers weighed in recently when someone posted on the Brooklynian, a neighborhood blog, the simple query: "Which bars are child free?" One writer shared the tale of a drunk father standing at a bar while his beer sloshed on his stroller-strapped kid's face. Another poster announced a bar crawl in which "no crawlers" would be allowed.

 

The public debate about babies in bars ignited about two years ago when the bar Union Hall, a popular stomping ground, banned strollers from the premises, Gross said.

 

(...)

 

Rest of the article here http://www.cnn.com/2010/LIVING/03/02/brooklyn.babies.in.bars/index.html#disqus_thread

 

 

 

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Franchement stupide. Un bar n'est pas une place pour un enfant, point final. Si tu veux prendre un verre, arrange toi pour trouver un gardien ou invite tes amis chez toi.

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Anyone who has been to a pub in England is aware that there are a handful of children there. What they tend to do is to have a backroom for "families" while the main pub is in front.

 

If an establishment has a designated family area that accepts minors, that's fine with me. I have zero problem with that. Example: Many restaurants nowadays have a bar section. It's perfectly acceptable in my view to have kids present as long as they don't go to the bar area.

 

If a young dad brings his kid to a standard bar, and then has the nerve to complain that it's too loud and that the patrons are drunk and rowdy, then it's a completely different story.

 

Kids in bars* = bad idea.

 

(*your standard night-life type bar, not talking some cheesy hotel lobby family bar area)

Edited by Cataclaw
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Ayant vécu en Espagne, je peux vous dire que là-bas, il y a toujours des enfants dans les bars... et c'est tout à fait acceptable.

 

Mais il faut aussi dire que là-bas, le bar est LE lieu de rencontre pour les gens d'un village ou d'un quartier. Des vieux monsieurs qui jouent aux cartes avec leur bière, des jeunes bruyants avec leur ron con cola des enfants de 5 ans qui courent partout, trois télévisions à trois postes différents avec le volume au max... c'est ça un bar espagnol! hehe

 

Mais c'est tout à fait vrai que quand j'vais fêter avec des amis, j'ai pas envie de me faire épier par la petite famille, ou de me faire dire de faire moins de bruit parce que le bébé de l'autre pleure!

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YDGxQC, je comprend exactement ce que tu dis! Au Portugal (mes parents sont Portugais) ce que tu décris n'est pas vraiment un "bar" mais plutôt un "café". Au Portugal les "cafés" sont les lieux de rencontre comme tu décris. Oui il y a un bar dans la pièce, mais aussi des tables, un comptoire avec des patisseries et parfois des arcades!

 

Quand je parle d'un "bar" je parle strictement d'un bar. Style nightlife. C'est là que les enfants n'ont pas de place.

 

T'imagines tu des enfants dans un des bar sur Saint-Laurent?!

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Oui, évidemment ce genre de bar ne devrait pas admettre les enfants. De toute façon en théorie ça devrait pas être 18+? (ou ben 15+ en pratique :silly:?)

 

C'est ben beau vouloir accomoder les familles, mais là, un bar, c'est pas leur place!

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I'm going to expose my repressed wacky liberal side for a minute and say that I actually think the minimum drinking age should be reduced to 16. We all know most kids have tried alcohol much earlier than 16, and a lot have been to bars by that age. I think that a younger minimum drinking age would help promote a better relationship with alcohol among young people. As backwards as that sounds....

 

I also think that the minimum driving age could be raised to 18. It really is around that age when you realize that you are responsible for your own actions. You're not just some kid anymore. That being said, I have no problem with someone holding a learner's at 16.

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