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STM: Prolongement de la ligne 05 Bleue vers l'Est


mtlurb

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What do you mean by privatize? Like the STM planning the lines and hiring private companies to run them or like letting private companies plan and run the bus lines the way they want?

 

In london, TFL which is public plans the lines, set-ups the service guidelines, and then private companies run the buses, trains and tube service.

 

All that with hefty penalties if they don't respect their guidelines, and every X amount of years, they go back to tenders and to renew or seek new companies to run those lines.

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In london, TFL which is public plans the lines, set-ups the service guidelines, and then private companies run the buses, trains and tube service.

 

All that with hefty penalties if they don't respect their guidelines, and every X amount of years, they go back to tenders and to renew or seek new companies to run those lines.

 

That, I like!

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I haven't looked into the case of London, but as far as I can tell, public transit operations are usually not profitable. New York City's subway system basically collapsed following the 1929 stock market crash - it had to be "bought back" by the city itself and it has operated more or less under such public ownership ever since.

 

I think there can be different ways to see public transit inside a major metropolitain area; personally, I prefer to see it as a truly public infrastructure, that should be financed by everybody. Whether you use it or not is irrelevant - what you pay for is to have that service available to you and others, like roads and sewers and what not. If that doesn't make sense to you, then perhaps you could look at it the other way - transit users don't really use roads, bridges and highways. Do you then think they should be exempt from paying those taxes ? Of course not. Same goes for public transit - it's a service available to the collectivity, and the bill should be footed by everyone. Those who do use it can then pay a premium. (hell, some places won't even charge you that - effectively making the use of mass transit free of charge. some would like this city to adopt such a model, but i'm against it).

 

The problem with planning and financing extentions to the network is somewhat different. It lies with the fact that municipal politics in Montreal have used extentions as an electoral argument, with usually very shallow intentions. Just rewind back to the last round of municipal campains - right then we had like what ? some 30 kilometres of new metro lines and tramways, etc .. It's been two years since they made those announcements, and nothing serious has come out of it. What Montreal needs is, as it as been suggested countless times before, and independant body managing the pool of funds collected for mass transit financing - the various municipale, provincial and federal tolls and taxes, along with usage fares - and using them to maintain and extend the network in first regards to transportation needs - not electoral ones.

 

Then, maybe, we'll see the network develop to what it's supposed to be like.

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Les automobilistes devrais voir le transport en commun comme un moyen de désengorger les routes. imaginez se rendre au centre ville s'il n'y aurait aucun transport en commun... on se retrouverait avec des embouteillage monstre. Je suis même pas sur si on aurait assez de stationnement sur l’île...

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Déjà deux ans et on entend absolument rien parler de ça... même Richard "watchdog" Bergeron ne jappe pas là dessus.

 

Il est présentement occupé à militer pour la climatisation dans le transport en commun, il ne peux pas être partout.

 

http://www.mtlurb.com/forums/showthread.php/3871-Youtube-thread?p=98702#post98702

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Le contraire est vrai aussi, pas de système routier, et le système de transport en commun ne pourrait jamais répondre à la demande accrue.

 

Une simple augmentation de 5% d'achalandage du métro et ça fouterait le bordel total puisqu'on est déjà passé la saturation.

 

(sans compter que les routes permettent aux produits et services de se déplacer...)

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Le métro est utilisé la nuit pour transporter des marchandises. Mais si ça pouvait être fait à grand échelle pour le centre ville, cela libérerait probablement beaucoup de camion inutile au Centre Ville.

 

 

Il faut investir dans les deux. On construira pas le Métro jusqu'à Rouyn !!! (mais maudit que sa serait bon d'élargir la 117 à 4 voie jusqu'à Mont-Laurier)

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Metro pour transporter des marchandises? Hein?

 

Les automobilistes devrais voir le transport en commun comme un moyen de désengorger les routes. imaginez se rendre au centre ville s'il n'y aurait aucun transport en commun... on se retrouverait avec des embouteillage monstre. Je suis même pas sur si on aurait assez de stationnement sur l’île...

 

Souvenez-vous quand ils ont ferme Berri il y a un an a cause d'un menace d'attentat? Le bordel dans tout la centre-ville!

 

I haven't looked into the case of London, but as far as I can tell, public transit operations are usually not profitable. New York City's subway system basically collapsed following the 1929 stock market crash - it had to be "bought back" by the city itself and it has operated more or less under such public ownership ever since.

 

I think there can be different ways to see public transit inside a major metropolitain area; personally, I prefer to see it as a truly public infrastructure, that should be financed by everybody. Whether you use it or not is irrelevant - what you pay for is to have that service available to you and others, like roads and sewers and what not. If that doesn't make sense to you, then perhaps you could look at it the other way - transit users don't really use roads, bridges and highways. Do you then think they should be exempt from paying those taxes ? Of course not. Same goes for public transit - it's a service available to the collectivity, and the bill should be footed by everyone. Those who do use it can then pay a premium. (hell, some places won't even charge you that - effectively making the use of mass transit free of charge. some would like this city to adopt such a model, but i'm against it).

 

The problem with planning and financing extentions to the network is somewhat different. It lies with the fact that municipal politics in Montreal have used extentions as an electoral argument, with usually very shallow intentions. Just rewind back to the last round of municipal campains - right then we had like what ? some 30 kilometres of new metro lines and tramways, etc .. It's been two years since they made those announcements, and nothing serious has come out of it. What Montreal needs is, as it as been suggested countless times before, and independant body managing the pool of funds collected for mass transit financing - the various municipale, provincial and federal tolls and taxes, along with usage fares - and using them to maintain and extend the network in first regards to transportation needs - not electoral ones.

 

Then, maybe, we'll see the network develop to what it's supposed to be like.

 

But the most successful ones, in Hong Kong and Tokyo for example, operate at high profits. Maybe there is a correlation :) A lot of transit users use road infrastructure, usually for "non-commuting" trips in their car, etc. But trunk roads are basically all financed via special taxes on automobiles and their operation / feeding. There is property taxes for just surface streets which are really impossible to not be using (sidewalk, etc)... whereas it is easily possible to not use public transit at all in any way...

Modifié par Cyrus
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Metro pour transporter des marchandises? Hein?

 

 

 

Souvenez-vous quand ils ont ferme Berri il y a un an a cause d'un menace d'attentat? Le bordel dans tout la centre-ville!

 

 

 

But the most successful ones, in Hong Kong and Tokyo for example, operate at high profits. Maybe there is a correlation :) A lot of transit users use road infrastructure, usually for "non-commuting" trips in their car, etc. But trunk roads are basically all financed via special taxes on automobiles and their operation / feeding. There is property taxes for just surface streets which are really impossible to not be using (sidewalk, etc)... whereas it is easily possible to not use public transit at all in any way...

 

 

of course it is possible to not use mass transit at all. but if everybody did that, unless there was a drastic change in the face of the city, it wouldn't work so well. the city, as it is, needs mass transit in order to function properly.

 

as for profitibility, i dunno ... perhaps they're doing something we don't know about, in london, tokyo or hong kong. montreal's use of mass transit is nothing to be ashamed of - we boast relatively impressive numbers for a city our size. and then there's new york again, where more people use public transportation than anywhere else in the freakin hemisphere and yet the mta still needs to "consolidate".

 

maybe they just have better accountants ? as far as i can tell tokyo's subway is still mostly financed via government entities. or perhaps they've just reached some threshold we have gotten to yet. or new york. maybe the only way to reach profitibality when operating a subway network is by doing

? :silly: ...
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