George Bush to visit Montreal

[Malek]

Mon ami a habité au Texas pendant un an et il me jure que c'est le peuple le plus gentil et serviable qu'il a jamais cottoyé.

[MTLskyline]

Yaaaaa toujours des débiles!

 

When Clinton was president, the far-right loonies wanted to remove him over a blowjob. When Bush was president, the far-left loonies wanted to remove him over the Iraq war. Now that Obama is president, far-right loonies want to remove him over a birth certificate? When another republican is eventually president, whenever that may be, the far-left loonies will resurface and demand impeachment over *shakes magic 8ball* toenail clippings.

 

 

Protests at the G8 and the like are so common that nobody cares anymore.

 

What has a protest ever accomplished? Unless you have ongoing protests for weeks or a massive protest with millions, it won't do squat, and that's the cold hard truth. The Iranian election protests may have changed something, a few minds, some mentalities, time will tell. I definitely approve of those. But a few hippies protesting Bush in Montreal... give me a break. I'm not a fan of GWB - at all - but even i find this a little silly.

I agree 100%.

[MTLskyline]

Oh don't give me this shit. I think Bush was a nut and consider myself pro-american. Half of the americans hate him as much as I do...does that make them anti-american too.

 

Rubbish.

 

I'm guessing that you're one of these people who suddenly decided that it was "cool" to like America again once Barrack Obama was elected. Am I right?

 

Americans are allowed to dislike their own leader because he's the leader of their country. Its their democratic right. However we in Canada getting on the high horse to wag our fingers at our southern neighbours in a time of weakness is pathetic.

[peluche]

I'm guessing that you're one of these people who suddenly decided that it was "cool" to like America again once Barrack Obama was elected. Am I right?

 

You are dead wrong...and you should stop making assumptions about people you do not know.

 

I have always been pro-american. Being anti-Bush does not make one anti american. What kind of crazy reasoning is this anyways?

[MTLskyline]

You are dead wrong...and you should stop making assumptions about people you do not know.

 

I have always been pro-american. Being anti-Bush does not make one anti american. What kind of crazy reasoning is this anyways?

 

Hating Bush is hating the two-time democratic choice of the American people. He was not a fascist dictator. His views are in line with at least 30% of the American electorate (and another 20%+ who preferred his views to the views of his opponents). Hating the man (and/or the people who elected him) is dangerously close to Anti-Americanism. If you simply disagreed with his policies or his way of running the country it would be a different matter.

 

I disagree with Barack Obama's policies, but I am in no way anti-Obama. I hope he succeeds in winning the war on terror, rebuilding the economy, and finding a consensus on health care because its best for the country.

[peluche]

Hating the man is dangerously close to Anti-Americanism. If you simply disagreed with his policies or his way of running the country it would be a different matter.

 

I completely disagree with your argument.

 

Three of my closest friends are americans, and believe it or not, they hate Bush more than I do. When we have debates, I sometimes find myself defending Bush and his policies where I find they may be exagerating the situation. That does not make them anti-american. Them hating Bush does not make them anti American. Neither does it make me anti- american.

 

If I had the chance ( yes....the chance to meet an ex-president and tell him I did not agree with his policies ) to meet Bush , I would be very polite and well behaved in his company. I just do not insult people even if I do not like them. Neither would I hit him or harm him. But let's be honest here..........I do not love this man......because of his policies......because he lied about the WMD......because he bullied his friends and allies....because he allied himself with the religious right, anti abortion, anti gay rights, anti regulation of the financial markets.....because he thought America could get away with a one man show, etc.etc........I hate him because I feel he has severly harmed America ( and the world ) with his policies.

 

I usually do not hate people I disagree with. But he has pushed his luck waaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy too far.

 

By the way, admit I am not the only one who hates him. Half of Americans do as well...and they are not anti americans are they?

[MTLskyline]

I completely disagree with your argument.

 

Three of my closest friends are americans, and believe it or not, they hate Bush more than I do. When we have debates, I sometimes find myself defending Bush and his policies where I find they may be exagerating the situation. That does not make them anti-american. Them hating Bush does not make them anti American. Neither does it make me anti- american.

 

If I had the chance ( yes....the chance to meet an ex-president and tell him I did not agree with his policies ) to meet Bush , I would be very polite and well behaved in his company. I just do not insult people even if I do not like them. Neither would I hit him or harm him. But let's be honest here..........I do not love this man......because of his policies......because he lied about the WMD......because he bullied his friends and allies....because he allied himself with the religious right, anti abortion, anti gay rights, anti regulation of the financial markets.....because he thought America could get away with a one man show, etc.etc........I hate him because I feel he has severly harmed America ( and the world ) with his policies.

 

I usually do not hate people I disagree with. But he has pushed his luck waaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy too far.

 

By the way, admit I am not the only one who hates him. Half of Americans do as well...and they are not anti americans are they?

On one had ou say you do not love him because of his policies, etc (which could be true of any Republican, and many Democrats). On the other hand you say you "hate" him because "he pushed his luck way too far". I'm not sure what that means, I think he tried to make the best of a very bad situation (The 9/11 terrorist attacks defined the way he governed, and most of us were willing to do whatever it takes to prevent another attack from occuring.) Hate is such a strong word though. I think that it should be reserved for only our true enemies: Osama Bin Laden, Qaeda, etc) George W. Bush is not an enemy.

 

An American who hates Bush is not anti-American but unpatriotic. I would also say that Americans who hate Obama are unpatriotic as the Presidency is an important historical and political institution. That's why I believe Rush Limbaugh is unpatriotic to want Barrack Obama to fail.

[GoMontreal]

On one had ou say you do not love him because of his policies, etc (which could be true of any Republican, and many Democrats). On the other hand you say you "hate" him because "he pushed his luck way too far". I'm not sure what that means, I think he tried to make the best of a very bad situation (The 9/11 terrorist attacks defined the way he governed, and most of us were willing to do whatever it takes to prevent another attack from occuring.) Hate is such a strong word though. I think that it should be reserved for only our true enemies: Osama Bin Laden, Qaeda, etc) George W. Bush is not an enemy.

 

An American who hates Bush is not anti-American but unpatriotic. I would also say that Americans who hate Obama are unpatriotic as the Presidency is an important historical and political institution. That's why I believe Rush Limbaugh is unpatriotic to want Barrack Obama to fail.

 

Actually, if you listen to the whole clip, Rush Limbaugh (whom I also am not a fan of, but feel the need to set facts straight anyways) said that if Obama keeps pushing socialist ideas, that he wanted him to fail. I think there's a distinction here. He didn't say he wanted Obama to fail, he wants Obama to fail in his socialist push. I don't think that makes Limbaugh unpatriotic. Quite the contrary actually. The US was founded on the ideas of freedom, liberty, prosperity and personal responsibility. Socialism goes against freedom and liberty, it definitely goes against prosperity and takes away personal responsibility. Whether Limbaugh says this or anyone else, the person saying it is a true patriot in my mind, standing for the constitution and what the country was founded on.

[MTLskyline]

Actually, if you listen to the whole clip, Rush Limbaugh (whom I also am not a fan of, but feel the need to set facts straight anyways) said that if Obama keeps pushing socialist ideas, that he wanted him to fail. I think there's a distinction here. He didn't say he wanted Obama to fail, he wants Obama to fail in his socialist push. I don't think that makes Limbaugh unpatriotic. Quite the contrary actually. The US was founded on the ideas of freedom, liberty, prosperity and personal responsibility. Socialism goes against freedom and liberty, it definitely goes against prosperity and takes away personal responsibility. Whether Limbaugh says this or anyone else, the person saying it is a true patriot in my mind, standing for the constitution and what the country was founded on.

I never heard the clip, I just went by what was said in the media.

I also want socialism to fail, but America to succeed, so it somewhat a conflicted time we live in with a left-leaning American president.

[Cataclaw]

On one had ou say you do not love him because of his policies, etc (which could be true of any Republican, and many Democrats). On the other hand you say you "hate" him because "he pushed his luck way too far". I'm not sure what that means, I think he tried to make the best of a very bad situation (The 9/11 terrorist attacks defined the way he governed, and most of us were willing to do whatever it takes to prevent another attack from occuring.) Hate is such a strong word though. I think that it should be reserved for only our true enemies: Osama Bin Laden, Qaeda, etc) George W. Bush is not an enemy.

 

An American who hates Bush is not anti-American but unpatriotic. I would also say that Americans who hate Obama are unpatriotic as the Presidency is an important historical and political institution. That's why I believe Rush Limbaugh is unpatriotic to want Barrack Obama to fail.

 

Ok time for me to step in. Hate is a subjective term and that's the bottom line. The word hate to me might have stronger meaning than you. Everyone's idea of hate is different. As such, i think it's perfectly acceptable to say you hate Bush or you hate Obama. I don't think it's going too far. Freedom of opinion allows you to love and hate whomever you like. I don't think it necessarily makes you unpatriotic to say you hate the current sitting President. Patriotism is not a reflection of one's words, rather one's actions.

 

For the record, i don't hate Bush and i don't hate Obama. I think Bush has an inadequate intelligence and disagree with his priorities. To be blunt, i think he's an idiot. I don't hate him, however.

 

I agree with the importance you place on the presidency as an institution. I guess it all depends on how strong "hate" is, for you.

 

 

Actually, if you listen to the whole clip, Rush Limbaugh (whom I also am not a fan of, but feel the need to set facts straight anyways) said that if Obama keeps pushing socialist ideas, that he wanted him to fail. I think there's a distinction here. He didn't say he wanted Obama to fail, he wants Obama to fail in his socialist push. I don't think that makes Limbaugh unpatriotic. Quite the contrary actually. The US was founded on the ideas of freedom, liberty, prosperity and personal responsibility. Socialism goes against freedom and liberty, it definitely goes against prosperity and takes away personal responsibility. Whether Limbaugh says this or anyone else, the person saying it is a true patriot in my mind, standing for the constitution and what the country was founded on.

 

Two things i take issue with.

 

1. Rush Limbaugh's desire for Obama to fail

2. Throwing around the word "socialism" and the idea that "socialism" goes against freedom and liberty.

 

Firstly, it's true that Limbaugh didn't explicitly say he wants Obama to fail. He said he wants to fail in his push for socialism. Now what if, just what if, and warning : this requires an open mind... what if Obama's "socialist" agenda turns out to be a smashing success. What if it puts people to work, saves health care and fixes the country, unicorns and rainbows included. In such an outcome, wanting Obama's socialism to fail would be directly linked to wanting policies that were successful in improving the lives of people to fail as well. There's no rewording of Limbaugh's statements that can possibly make it alright. The fact is, he is unpatriotic in the extreme. His vision of patriotism is extremely narrow and diluted.

 

Everyone should want the president to succeed, since the president's goals are to improve the country. You can disagree with his policies, but if the policies turn out to be successful, you should be man enough to admit it. A lot of people trash Bush for many things, but i think he succeeded in keeping the country safe since 9/11 and i thank him and admire him for that.

 

That being said, overall, I strongly disliked Bush during his presidency, but something my friends could never understand was why i still wanted him to succeed despite everything. I would tell them : "of course i want him to succeed. I don't like the guy, but that doesn't mean i think the country should suffer. If Bush's policies turn out good, then fantastic! I may even change my opinion of him."

 

Wanting someone to fail is the most close-minded thing possible. What if socialism turned out to be amazing? Would you still want it to fail out of principle? I'm a liberal, but if a conservative president were to do an outstanding job and push for conservative legislation that really made a difference, hell, i might change my political stance on some issues! That, to me, is patriotism.

 

 

Now... about socialism. First, let's be real. The word is used so freely but nothing Obama proposes is true socialism. Ask any actual real-world socialist. He'll tell you that Obama's agenda isn't far-left at all, in fact it's pretty centrist compared to Canada, Europe and most of the world.

 

The fact is, in America the "right" is the "right-right" as it would be in most other countries. And the "left" in America isn't really that left at all, it's more centre or centre-left than anything else. The whole American political spectrum is slanted to the right.

 

So to call Obama a socialist is truly absurd. If you think Obama is socialist, you don't know what true socialism is. Secondly, i've been following Obama closely since the beginning and nothing he's proposed is truly socialist. Take health care... socialism takes away freedom, but Obama's plan gives you the full freedom to choose your doctor, choose your plan, choose pretty much everything. You have an enormous amount of liberty under the current health care plan and under Obama's reforms as well.

 

All this use of "socialism" is just hogwash.