General Motors

[MTLskyline]

In this thread I am going to dispel some myths about the build quality of General Motors products.

 

Today, I'll start off with Buick and its new/upcoming models. The current Allure/LaCrosse will be replaced this year by the one I'm posting here. The Regal will make a return to North America and take the place of the Saturn Aura (with some Opel underpinnings). The Lucerne will be cut completely. Saturn looks like its on the way out over the next few years, so expect Buick to pick up where Saturn left off.

BUICK

2010 Buick LaCrosse

Base engine: 260 hp, 3.0L direct injected V6

Optional engine: 280-hp 3.6L direct injected V6

 

 

 

New Buick Regal (2010 or 2011)

 

 

Buick Enclave (current model)

275-horsepower, 3.6-liter VVT V6

 

 

 

[ProposMontréal]

I'm actually a car guy, really enjoying cars and I almost always forget about Buick being an actual full line of cars and trucks, Saturn looks like it's going Chinese, to SAIC.

 

These cars are all very nicely built, but they are all over the 30k line, Saturn has mpre cars under 30k than over. you can't compare. I have a 35K Altima Coupe and If I would have seen one piece of cheap plastic at the wrong place, for that price, they would have taken the car back, trust me.

 

I am not doubting the GM quality, I'm am doubting they would have any idea what to do with the money any goverment would give them. A friend's father worked at GM for 20 years, he now makes more money retired in than most people do working. That's what bring the prices cars up. Get rid of the completely unreasonable union's request and ALL the prices of cars will come down by 5 to 10k. Making the car is not expensive it's all the extras.

 

For GM, a car costs 70$US an hour to produce just in labour and benefits to current and retired employees. So if I have a choice between a 20,000$ Sentra or Civic instead of a Saturn Astra (Daewoo) or a Pontiac G5. I'm going Asian until they can offer the same quality for the same price and not at 5k more.

[Habsfan]

These cars are all very nicely built, but they are all over the 30k line

 

BINGO! You hit it on the head. I never said that Cadillac and Lincoln produced shitty quality...at the price they sell their cars, they better make sure it is of good quality.

 

Where I have a problem with the American Compnies is they average products. Compare a 20,000$ or 25,000$ Chevrolet or Ford product to a 20,000$ Toyota or Honda...and you will see that the fit and finish of their japanese products is better.

 

The other problem is that the Americans produced shitty cars for soo long(70's, 80's and 90's) that people have a tendancy of remembering the shitty American car they had back in the 80's and 90's. To change a clients mind, you have to get them into your new cars...and when your average person makes up his mond on a certain product, well it's very hard to get them to change their minds. Like I said before, when a company produces cars like the Aztec, the Impala, the Monte Carlo, the Malibu, the Five hundred, the Escort, and many other horrible looking cars with a serious problem with the quality of the product...it's is very hard to change people's minds about their "new and improved" products.

 

BruB is alos right about the Unions at the Big 3 american cars producers. I read a report that said that GM has to charge and extra 2200$ PER CAR sold, just to cover the extra costs the unions hinder them with.

 

I have a 35K Altima Coupe and If I would have seen one piece of cheap plastic at the wrong place, for that price, they would have taken the car back, trust me.

 

Encore une fois, je suis entièrement d'accord avec BruB.

[yarabundi]

Il suffit de se remémorer du temps qu'il a fallu à Hyundai pour être considérer comme un manufacturier sérieux.

Hyundai ne peut vraiment être considéré comme un compétiteur sérieux des manufacturiers japonais que depuis quoi ? cinq ans ? peut-être moins et pourtant il commercialisent de voitures ici en Amérique du Nord depuis plus de 20 ans !! La première auto que j'ai acheté en 1993 était un Élantra. Comme je l'ai regretté. Bien que les Hyundai soient bien mieux fabriquées 15 ans plus tard, je ne rachèterais plus une voiture de ce manufacturier.

Si on transpose mon expérience aux Trois Grands, on peut dire que les acheteurs se méfient suffisament des produits états-uniens et ce malgré la réputation de meilleure qualité dont profitent désormais leurs voitures pour les décourager de considérer l'achat d'un modèle GM, Ford ou Chrysler !!

[Habsfan]

Il suffit de se remémorer du temps qu'il a fallu à Hyundai pour être considérer comme un manufacturier sérieux.

 

Hyundai a pris 20 années avant de commencer a être pris au sérieux!

[MTLskyline]

I'm actually a car guy, really enjoying cars and I almost always forget about Buick being an actual full line of cars and trucks, Saturn looks like it's going Chinese, to SAIC.

 

These cars are all very nicely built, but they are all over the 30k line, Saturn has mpre cars under 30k than over. you can't compare. I have a 35K Altima Coupe and If I would have seen one piece of cheap plastic at the wrong place, for that price, they would have taken the car back, trust me.

 

I am not doubting the GM quality, I'm am doubting they would have any idea what to do with the money any goverment would give them. A friend's father worked at GM for 20 years, he now makes more money retired in than most people do working. That's what bring the prices cars up. Get rid of the completely unreasonable union's request and ALL the prices of cars will come down by 5 to 10k. Making the car is not expensive it's all the extras.

 

For GM, a car costs 70$US an hour to produce just in labour and benefits to current and retired employees. So if I have a choice between a 20,000$ Sentra or Civic instead of a Saturn Astra (Daewoo) or a Pontiac G5. I'm going Asian until they can offer the same quality for the same price and not at 5k more.

Yes, there is definitely truth in what you say.

 

For starters, my comparison between Buick and Saturn has to do with the next generation Opel Vectra being badged as a Buick rather than a Saturn. For the last year or two, I believe that Saturn has been very competitive versus the other makers. My father owns a 2007 Saturn Aura, and it is quite a nice vehicle (despite coming in at over $32,000 after taxes). My only complaint with it is that it is a bit on the bulky side, and the rear visibility is not great. I was considering getting a Saturn Astra, but like you said, I'm worried of them being sold to the Chinese, or gotten rid of entirely, so I'll probably save my money to buy a new Chevrolet Cruze in 2010/2011 instead or perhaps a next gen Ford Focus.

 

I agree with you regarding cheap plastic in higher priced cars. Nissan usually does an extremley good job with fit and finish. It's probably my favourite Japanese automaker (Mazda is a close second). I think that a Nissan-Renault takeover of Chrysler could turn the brand around for sure.

 

I am complete agreement with you on union costs. These people need to realize that if they want to keep their jobs, they will have to make some large concessions. I know a lot of the money will be used to close down under-performing dealerships in the US, as there are a surplus of them. If the union excepts less money, more of the bailout money could go towards product, particularily developping more green technology.

 

With regards to the Sentra/Civic vs. Astra/G5, you got the Astra wrong. It is identical in nearly every way to the Opel Astra sold in Europe. It is even manufactured in Antwerp, Belgium. Daewoo is not involved. The G5, I agree, is a little on the weak side. But GM appears to be phasing out Pontiac as a main brand, and will spend more money developping Chevrolets instead. (I like the Sentra, but the Civic to me screems "ricer", and it is a little weak on torque).

[MTLskyline]

Buick Allure/LaCrosse beets the Lexus ES 350 in a comparison/review:

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=156106#32

[MTLskyline]

 

 

Buick releases new sketch of forthcoming compact sedan

12/07/2009, 10:27 AM

By Drew Johnson

 

Following a quick tease at last week’s Los Angeles Auto Show, Buick has released an official sketch of its upcoming compact sedan. General Motors failed to release any new details on the baby Buick, but some new information has surfaced in the internet rumor mill.

 

Slotting beneath the recently unveiled Regal in Buick’s lineup, the new compact sedan will be based on General Motor’s Delta II architecture, the very same that will underpin the Chevrolet Cruze and Volt. From the teaser sketch we can clearly see the new model will sport the signature Buick waterfall grille, expressive headlights inspired by the Regal and hood-mounted portholes.

 

As the new model will ride on GM’s Delta platform, expect a range of fuel efficient powertrain offerings, including the 1.4L turbo unit headed for the engine bay of the Chevy Cruze. That mill will make 140 horsepower in the Cruze, but could add a few ponies in up-scale Buick-guise. A diesel engine option is said to be in the mix, as is a hybrid powertrain based on the system from the Chevrolet Volt. The new Buick model will likely offer six-speed automatic and manual gearboxes.

 

Look for the new Buick model to be produced at GM’s Lordstown, Ohio facility. GM’s Lordstown plant will begin production of the Cruze in June 2010, with the Buick sedan likely to follow about 12 to 18 months later. The compact Bucik sedan should hit dealers by early 2012 with a price tag at or below the $20,000 mark.

http://www.leftlanenews.com/buick-releases-new-sketch-of-forthcoming-compact-sedan.html

http://www.leftlanenews.com/buick-releases-new-sketch-of-forthcoming-compact-sedan.html

[WestAust]

Aucun doute que le design autant intérieur qu'extérieur des nouvelles buick est très bien

 

Par contre, j'ai bien hâte de constater par moi même la qualité des matériaux utilisés et la qualité d'assemblage qui sont 2 points qui ont vraiment manqué a tout les constructeurs américains et ce depuis au moins une décénie.

Edited December 12, 2009 by WestAust

[MTLskyline]

2011 Buick Excelle (this is the Chinese spec one, but should give some idea as to what the official North American one will look like when it is unveiled this fall) Very unique styling I must say. I'm very impressed! Buick will have one of top entry-level luxury lineups in the industry (LaCrosse, Regal, Excelle, Enclave)

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/04/15/chinese-market-buick-excelle-sedan-caught-without-camo/