«Quebec bashing» : Charest lance un appel au calme

[yarabundi]

The problem is not Quebecers, but these damned leftists who are trying to seize power without Canadians' consent.

:confused:

Est-ce que j'ai manqué un épisode ? La gauche qui veut prendre le pouvoir ? Il y a une gauche au Canada ? :eek: :eek: Tous dans les abris !!

Après le discours à la nation de ce soir de Mr Harper, le Québec Bashing va redevenir très à la mode.

:confused: Comment ?? Est-ce que j'ai manqué un autre épisode ? Le Québec Bashing était plus à la mode ?

Moi. Je suis anglophone au Quebec. Il y autant de Québecois qui m'haïssent qui il y en dans le ROC qui haïssent les Québecois.

J'avoue : c'est un problème. Il est toujours plus facile de voir la paille dans l'oeil du voisin que la poutre dans la nôtre.

With attitudes like those, for sure Canada will never progress...

 

The only way to achieve a better relationship is to set aside contempt, on both sides, and spread a little hope and optimism around.

Dès demain je suivrais un vrai leader qui au-delà de la partisanerie tiendrait un tel discours. Cependant, aucun de ceux que j'ai entendu ce soir ne rentre dans la catégorie des grands leaders.

[Cataclaw]

Dès demain je suivrais un vrai leader qui au-delà de la partisanerie tiendrait un tel discours. Cependant, aucun de ceux que j'ai entendu ce soir ne rentre dans la catégorie des grands leaders.

 

En effet. Voilà la triste réalité!

[rosey12387]

Pour ma part, je crois que le Bloc fait bien d'appuyer la coalition. Après tout, les conservateurs n'ont que 37,6% du vote populaire alors c'est normal que les 62,4% autre décident pour le ROC.

 

Meanwhile only 38.1% of Quebec voters voted Bloc and they got 65.3% of Quebec seats. And Chretien won a majority with 38.46% in 1997. We can all play with statistics until we're blue in the face.

 

What's more important in this discussion is there should be a large distinction between Quebec bashing and separatist bashing. While the Bloc claims to be a party looking out for Quebec's interests it time and time again clearly states it is a party who’s goal is the separation of Quebec. Those two things are not necessarily one and the same.

 

The anger is not aimed at Quebecers or Quebec as a whole. It is at the 38.1% of those who voted in Quebec who voted for the Bloc a party made up of separatist MPs.

 

Because let's not forget before Harper the Bloc did not like Martin, nor did they like Chretien or Mulroney, the man many PC MPs betrayed to create the Bloc. The Bloc would likely hate Jack Layton just as much if he became PM.

 

The Bloc has the unrealistic goal of making sure all of Quebec's needs are always met. And since there are 9 other provinces that will never be possible no matter what party is in power. Not to mention it's questionable that a party could have the specific goal of continually supporting the interests of a province when that province has over 7,000,000 people all with opinions of their own. Let's not forget we have 5 major parties, with 5 different platforms to choose from next Monday not 1. All 5 seem to think Quebec has different interests.

 

As well, if the same party holding the balance of power was a Manitoban or Newfounlander separatist party the same anger would exist. It is not about Quebec persay. It is about separatists holding Canada by the balls. It doesn't matter where that hand comes from. Now if you’d like to cry about how those mean English Canadians are hurting your feelings, that’s your prerogative, just know you’re not actually important enough for them to care about.

 

And in the case that that anger is directed towards Quebec in general well that's because the heart of the problem comes from Quebec. Despite having only 23% of Canada's population out of the now 163 seats that have power in the house 40% of them, 64 seats, are from Quebec. Meanwhile, the west which represents 31% of the population has 21 seats (1 each for Alberta and Saskatchewan) so they rightfully feel their needs will not be meant.

 

Could you blame them for wanting Quebec out of their country? In fact, considering it has taken over 141 years for Quebec to make a decision could you not see why they are fed up? I’m sure many of them wish they could have a referendum on Quebec and give it a one-way ticket out of confederation. Let’s not forget Quebec separatists have had two chances and failed and from polling it looks like they would fail again today. It is not fair to keep Canada ransom until Quebec decides it’s ready.

[Habsfan]

Après le discours à la nation de ce soir de Mr Harper, le Québec Bashing va redevenir très à la mode.

 

C'est quand? Est ce que je l'ai manqué? Si oui, qu,a t il dit?

[WestAust]

We did try about 25 years ago, and we got stabbed in the back. No thanks!

 

That's exactly how the western provinces feel right now, like they are getting stabbed by central canada, with Quebec holding them on while the knife is entering them.

 

For pretty much the first time in the history of this country, both political and economic power has gone west, ontario/quebec are having a hard time economically due to the decline in manufacturing and forestry while alberta, saskatchewan and part of BC are enjoying prosperity due to oil and high raw material prices.

 

Politically, it's the remains of a western party that got elected as governement, really close to majority, and yet, they are about to loose it to a coalition that is created by 2 parties with the backing of the enemy (Dion and Duceppe are complete opposites on the issue of Canada/Quebec relationships)

 

It is indeed their turn to get stabbed by other provinces, different times, different means.

[yarabundi]

WestAust : lest not forget that it all started with the hidden agenda of Harper's government. Everything and its contrary could be and will be said but deeply this is the starting and final point of all this. Harper's strategy hit a wall and a gigantic one. He's a man with a gigantic ego and he won't back down : he's way too proud to admit that he made a mistake. His policies will only have one effect : to widened the gap between Canadians. This week-end, there will be supporting marches for the two sides in every cities in Canada and both side are at the present time sharpening their weapons (matter of speaking of course). All of that because one man -one man !! thought that even if he doesn't have a majority could act as if he had and impose an hidden agenda. Honestly : do you thing the three other political partys would have even think about this coalition if Harper's plan would have been reasonnable ? I don't think this (the coalition) is the kind of risk that they were ready to take lightly.

Deeply I believe that Harper was expecting a majority at the last canadian election and that his mind was on "majority government mode" even before the end of the campaign. The results probably hit him harder than we could imagine and somehow he snapped, lost touch with reality and decided that he didn't have the patience to wait another election to go along with his real agenda. I don't see another explanation.

[GDS]

True - but when push came to shove, he did back away from all his proposals. The opposition had won, but they didn't want to stop, Harper blinked and they went in for the kill. They could have claimed a major victory and instead I think they are much weaker because they will have a hard time making gains in western Canada, while the Conservatives have already made gains in Ontario and should be able to maintain their seats in Quebec and Atlantic Canada.

[rosey12387]

do you thing the three other political partys would have even think about this coalition if Harper's plan would have been reasonnable ?

 

While I can't speak for anyone else I sure do.

 

Let's remember all the confidence votes of the last parliament. 2 of the 3 coalition parties always voted non-confidence. The other one, remained absent and has finally found a good time to take power after a 2.5 year break. This coalition was formed due to a so called lack of stimulus. The opposition parties have yet to really explain what stimulus means other than throwing money at failing companies.

[OursNoir]

C'est assez simple de voir pourquoi cette coalition a vu le jour malgré les tensions entre les partis moins à droite que les conservateurs.

 

Aucun des trois ne croyait aux politiques de Harper. Le NPD et le Bloc se rejoignent sur beaucoup de points, mis à part le fait que un réclame des avantages pour le Québec et l'autre pour le ROC.

 

La tête du parti libéral, soit Stéphane Dion est une marionnette. Je ne l'imagine pas du tout prendre une décision par lui-même.

 

Puisque ni le NPD, ni le Bloc ne veulent garder les conservateurs au pouvoir, ils se sont dit qu'en s'associant aux libéraux, ils pourrait réussir à faire passer n'importe quoi grâce à la marionnette qu'est Dion. Pour une fois dans l'histoire, des partis de second ordre aurait le pouvoir de gouverner le pays, et Layton et Duceppe ne sont pas dupes, ils ont vu l'opportunité.

 

Et, ça sera mouvementé à l'assemblée nationale, mais pour la première fois, une très grande proportion de gens auront eu leur mot à dire dans la façon dont est dirigé le pays.

[OursNoir]

Et j'ajouterais que, par miracle, la population se sent finalement interpelé par ce qui se passe à Ottawa.

 

On aurait demandé au peuple, par sondage, ce qu'il pensait des projets de lois soumis par Harper, 10% aurait été au courant. Mais si on leur demande leur avis sur la coalition et sur la situation actuelle, ils ont tous un avis.

 

Il n'y a plus de "j'm'en criss", et pour ça, le peuple sort gagnant.

 

Ça me donne même un brin de nostalgie de 1995, alors que tout le monde avait pris position, que ce soit d'un côté ou de l'autre.