american airlines

[thenoflyzone]

On 2023-03-09 at 4:47 PM, caribb said:

It’s odd AA & DL does while UA doesn’t especially considering YUL is a major Star Alliance hub.. is anything I would have expected mainline from them and regional from the other two. Now that they e developed a joint venture with AC I’m hoping they’ll code share YUL-LAX, YUL-SFO and maybe some other trans continental route with mainline aircraft. So weird the other two do and they only fly short hops. Everything seems backwards from what it should logically be. 
 

Maybe UA mainline is the global carrier that we speculated on a few weeks ago that is rumored to come to Montreal… 

I don’t find it odd at all.

1. AC has the largest amount of seats from YUL to the US. By far! Considering AC and UA codeshare on a lot of routes, this means UA have access to a lot of seats on AC flights (including YUL-LAX/SFO. Don’t know why you think they don’t already codeshare on those two). Meaning they don’t need to fly mainline to YUL. With the recent JV between the two, and the fact they can now coordinate on schedule and pricing, means the chances of seeing UA mainline at YUL are even slimmer than before.

2. YUL-MIA on AA has been mainline the longest I believe, and has huge demand, hence why mainline on the route. Mainline on DFW and CLT are more recent, but make sense as both are massive AA hubs. In winter there is probably massive demand through those hubs to warmer climates. Same for DL with YUL-ATL. 

At the end of the day, UA doesn’t need to send mainline to YUL on their short hops (ORD, EWR, IAD), because the access to seats it has on AC flights is more than enough. Plus, frequency is more important, as those 3 destinations are important business markets out of YUL as well, so having several flights a day on regional jets is more important and higher yielding than 1 or 2 mainline flights.

DL and AA don’t have the luxury of a codeshare partner at YUL, so mainline makes sense for them on busy and somewhat longer routes, which are more focused on connecting leisure traffic than O&D (business or otherwise), with the obvious exception of MIA, which has a ton of O&D.

[caribb]

6 hours ago, thenoflyzone said:

I don’t find it odd at all.

1. AC has the largest amount of seats from YUL to the US. By far! Considering AC and UA codeshare on a lot of routes, this means UA have access to a lot of seats on AC flights (including YUL-LAX/SFO. Don’t know why you think they don’t already codeshare on those two). Meaning they don’t need to fly mainline to YUL. With the recent JV between the two, and the fact they can now coordinate on schedule and pricing, means the chances of seeing UA mainline at YUL are even slimmer than before.

2. YUL-MIA on AA has been mainline the longest I believe, and has huge demand, hence why mainline on the route. Mainline on DFW and CLT are more recent, but make sense as both are massive AA hubs. In winter there is probably massive demand through those hubs to warmer climates. Same for DL with YUL-ATL. 

At the end of the day, UA doesn’t need to send mainline to YUL on their short hops (ORD, EWR, IAD), because the access to seats it has on AC flights is more than enough. Plus, frequency is more important, as those 3 destinations are important business markets out of YUL as well, so having several flights a day on regional jets is more important and higher yielding than 1 or 2 mainline flights.

DL and AA don’t have the luxury of a codeshare partner at YUL, so mainline makes sense for them on busy and somewhat longer routes, which are more focused on connecting leisure traffic than O&D (business or otherwise), with the obvious exception of MIA, which has a ton of O&D.

I know they’d never send mainline on short hops, so for their current operations it makes sense. What I find strange is they never opened a trans continental route out of YUL were they  could. LAX, SFO and DEN for instance.  They fly mainline too Toronto. Vancouver and Calgary from these destinations so one would think they’d try and add Montreal given our Star Alliance hub status. Cooperation with Air Canada could mean profit sharing at least one of those routes (like LH on YUL-MUC) as offering their brand  would be a benefit to Star customers, especially Americans who like to support their own companies. 

[SameGuy]

Because the American carriers prefer not to overfly hubs on international legs.

[caribb]

On 2023-03-09 at 7:27 PM, SameGuy said:

AC doesn’t have US hubs. Hub and spoke still rules in North America. Don’t expect any long-distance flying from the US carriers if they can code share, basically getting money for not doing anything. It’s the same reason why the US carriers are cutting their 5th Freedom flights in Asia, and downsizing or eliminating hubs.

I mean, Narita was one of the busiest widebody hubs operated by a US carrier anywhere as recently as 15 years ago, when Northwest Airlines served 19 different destinations: Bangkok, Beijing, Busan, Detroit, Guam, Guangzhou, Hong Kong, Honolulu, Los Angeles, Manila, Minneapolis, Portland, Saipan, San Francisco, Seattle Tacoma, Seoul, Shanghai, Singapore, and Taipei. It was a sight to behold. Now, Delta serves seven US cities out of Haneda, with only Manila served on Delta metal, out of ICN. 

 

[caribb]

On 2023-03-09 at 7:27 PM, SameGuy said:

AC doesn’t have US hubs. Hub and spoke still rules in North America. Don’t expect any long-distance flying from the US carriers if they can code share, basically getting money for not doing anything. It’s the same reason why the US carriers are cutting their 5th Freedom flights in Asia, and downsizing or eliminating hubs.

I mean, Narita was one of the busiest widebody hubs operated by a US carrier anywhere as recently as 15 years ago, when Northwest Airlines served 19 different destinations: Bangkok, Beijing, Busan, Detroit, Guam, Guangzhou, Hong Kong, Honolulu, Los Angeles, Manila, Minneapolis, Portland, Saipan, San Francisco, Seattle Tacoma, Seoul, Shanghai, Singapore, and Taipei. It was a sight to behold. Now, Delta serves seven US cities out of Haneda, with only Manila served on Delta metal, out of ICN.

I understand what you and others are saying and I’m not trying to be argumentative, but this logic doesn't seem to apply to Toronto, Vancouver, and Calgary, where they have mainline transcon routes or half transcontinental routes. Why doesn't UA just codeshare LAX, SFO, and DEN to YYZ if it is the money for nothing thing to do? Why is YUL, a larger SA hub and a much larger urban center than Calgary FI, left out of this Canadian service by UA from the US West Coast? Everything you said makes sense, but it should imply that they'd just leave AC to offer all those flights between those CDN markets. Right now, AC has three flights to LAX from YUL (summer). Is there no way UA could fly one of them? Not all passengers are connecting to a transatlantic flight, and with the new partnership, I'd imagine they could work out a codeshare to connect to overseas flights from YUL with Air Canada plus AC would still codeshare.

I'm only an avgeek, but sometimes it seems Montreal is always treated like a poor sibling compared to other Canadian hubs. I know Toronto is a much larger wealthier market, Vancouver captures the transpacific and cruise market, and Calgary is HQ-heavy (premium seats) with limited or no rail or ship service, so everyone flies. But we have a better proximity and shorter flight time to Europe and the most extensive service to Africa and France (the largest tourist market in the world) from Canada. So, in our own way, we can compete, and they should be taking advantage of that, in my opinion. But it's just an opinion. Anyways, nothing I say is going to change anything. I hope one day it suits them to fly here, and if/when that happens, I'll pop some champagne and feel like we've rightfully taken the place where we should be. Ok, I’m done with this 😂.. 

[SameGuy]

Toronto and Vancouver have tons more California traffic than we do. Not just Hollywood, but tech and industry as well. AC has more than once overestimated the YUL-LAX traffic and had to downgauge. Again, without justifiable traffic, the US carriers prefer not to overfly hubs for international (or transborder) routes. There’s way way more money on the table by making people connect to spokes routes, which is their bread and butter from YUL right now.