Control the Masses: Andres Duany

[MtlMan]

Est-ce que les économistes reçoivent des cours d'urbanisme ? Je me demande.....

[Malek]

On 2019-01-05 at 4:52 PM, macha said:

How though? It’s not like were expecting urban planners to be bonafide market analysts.

UQAM has required econ courses, while Mcgill has ECON option and elective courses. Quite a few standard URB courses happen to be multidisciplinary, and do cover to some varying degree macroeconomics. Accreditation agencies in Canada require that urban planning programs cover various fields of applied economics. The field isn’t completely blind to the science, or whatever was the point here.

Thanks for clarifying, its good news... but they are not tasked or required to do market analysis, just understand the impact of their planning and counselling as they are part of local govt.

For those that don't understand:

Macro economy is a 45h class about market agents, how these agents interact and free market mechanisms.

If an agent X does something, what happens to Y?

If an urban planner who represent government pushes for X, what happens to the private sector, dwellings, other govts agencies, etc.

It's really basics and is given in many many many curriculums.

I know in IT we had one, and that doesn't make us market analysts...

[Gabmtl]

Le 2019-01-05 à 10:26, Malek a dit :

Est-ce que les urbanistes suivent des cours de macro-économie?  Je suis curieux.

J'avais un cours de macroéconomie dans le bac en urbanisme à l'UQAM, qui était d'ailleurs obligatoire:
https://etudier.uqam.ca/cours?sigle=EUT1032

[macha]

1 hour ago, Malek said:

Thanks for clarifying, its good news... but they are not tasked or required to do market analysis, just understand the impact of their planning and counselling as they are part of local govt.

For those that don't understand:

Macro economy is a 45h class about market agents, how these agents interact and free market mechanisms.

If an agent X does something, what happens to Y?

If an urban planner who represent government pushes for X, what happens to the private sector, dwellings, other govts agencies, etc.

It's really basics and is given in many many many curriculums.

I know in IT we had one, and that doesn't make us market analysts...

I noticed that, from what I gather a lot of STEM programs have required or option introductory macro or micro courses (maybe because DECs in science don’t cover Econ). Cool thing is that they’re often bird courses, so I would recommend taking either or both as an elective if it’s not required for the degree; for the educational value and the GPA boost. 

2 hours ago, MtlMan said:

Est-ce que les économistes reçoivent des cours d'urbanisme ? Je me demande.....

More likely as electives. Economics as a discipline has a pretty broad field of application. An economics undergrad program needs to be flexible. But a student should definitely work in some relevant courses if they plan on pursuing a career related to planning or getting into a masters in planning.

Anyways, we’re getting way off topic, but this interesting. It would be nice to start some topic on urb-related education.

[mtlurb]

58 minutes ago, macha said:

I noticed that, from what I gather a lot of STEM programs have required or option introductory macro or micro courses (maybe because DECs in science don’t cover Econ). Cool thing is that they’re often bird courses, so I would recommend taking either or both as an elective if it’s not required for the degree; for the educational value and the GPA boost. 

More likely as electives. Economics as a discipline has a pretty broad field of application. An economics undergrad program needs to be flexible. But a student should definitely work in some relevant courses if they plan on pursuing a career related to planning or getting into a masters in planning.

Anyways, we’re getting way off topic, but this interesting. It would be nice to start some topic on urb-related education.

I encourage you to open a thread. It would definitely be interesting for actual students and future ones. 

[montreal67]

Le 2019-01-05 à 12:48, Malek a dit :

Ça explique pleins de choses, merci

Si tous les urbanistes appliquaient ce que l'on apprend en cours d'économie, on ne planifierait plus de Laval !

[mtlurb]

il y a 8 minutes, montreal67 a dit :

Si tous les urbanistes appliquaient ce que l'on apprend en cours d'économie, on ne planifierait plus de Laval !

Pas sûr de te comprendre, mais bon si ça fait ton plaisir

[p_xavier]

32 minutes ago, mtlurb said:

Pas sûr de te comprendre, mais bon si ça fait ton plaisir

En effet, ce que planifie les urbanistes c'est ce qui il a de plus dispendieux du pi2... J'ai encore dela difficulté à comprendre le but de l'urbanisme au Québec. Tokyo a enlevé la majorité des règles d'urbanisme et c'est l'endroit au monde le plus dense au meilleur coût.

[mtlurb]

il y a 21 minutes, p_xavier a dit :

Tokyo a enlevé la majorité des règles d'urbanisme.

J’aimerais que tu cites ta source pour ça... c’est surprenant. 

[montreal67]

Il y a 2 heures, mtlurb a dit :

J’aimerais que tu cites ta source pour ça... c’est surprenant. 

Excellent article du Financial Times sur le sujet (puisqu'apparemment, les urbanistes ne font pas d'économie):

https://www.ft.com/content/023562e2-54a6-11e6-befd-2fc0c26b3c60

En bref, au Japon, les règles d'urbanisme se font à l'échelle du territoire (comme il se doit) et non de la ville/quartier, ce qui anéantit toute possibilité de NIMBYisme. Il en résulte un paysage urbain assez incohérent mais équitable et abordable.

Personnellement, je conçois la chose comme un triangle dont les 3 coins sont: 

1. Une ville de classe mondiale (dans le sens de mégapole internationale)
2. Une ville au paysage urbain (architecture et urbanisme) "cohérent" ou "uniforme" (ce qui suppose un plus haut degré de planification et de restriction)
3. Une ville abordable

Choisissez-en deux.

Plusieurs villes ont deux mais pas trois (Paris a 1 et 2, Tokyo a 1 et 3, Strasbourg a 2 et 3). Certaines villes font certainement exception, comme Vienne (bien que je ne crois pas qu'il s'agisse d'une mégapole internationale, loin de là, mais la ville demeure attractive) qui dispose d'une abordabilité relative du logement en raison de la proportion massive de logements sociaux et communautaires auto-construits.

Autres excellents articles sur le sujet:

• A Shortage of Cities - City Observatory: http://cityobservatory.org/housing_cortright/

• Housing unaffordability is the result of artificial scarcity — Strong Towns: https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2016/4/20/affordable-housing

• Yes, You Can Build Your Way to Affordable Housing - Sightline Institute: https://www.sightline.org/2017/09/21/yes-you-can-build-your-way-to-affordable-housing/

Modifié 9 janvier 2019 par montreal67