caribb

Southwest looking to possibly start flights to Canada from Baltimore

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BWI is Southwest’s east coast hub. It’s the best city in their network to start the route from if it ever happens which at this point seems unlikely. I’ve read or heard nothing since this article from a year ago. With Canadian LCC’s avoiding Quebec like the plague and US LCC’s flying to border cities it looks like we will just have to wait or hope someone locally starts up a LCC based here, . 

Edited by caribb

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il y a 31 minutes, caribb a dit :

BWI is Southwest’s east coast hub. It’s the best city in their network to start the route from if it ever happens which at this point seems unlikely. I’ve read or heard nothing since this article from a year ago. With Canadian LCC’s avoiding Quebec like the plague and US LCC’s flying to border cities it looks like we will just have to wait or hope someone locally starts up a LCC based here, . 

We already have an LCC in Quebec. It's called Sunwing, and honestly it's the only one that we'll have here. American LCCs don't fly to Canada, so there's that. Domestic demand is not high at all from Quebec to other places, so Canadian LCCs or ULCCs don't fly here very much. The only low cost thing that really works is the south and europe in the summer, which is already covered by a lot of low cost airlines (Level, Corsair, Sunwings, etc. )

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10 minutes ago, ERJ-Boy said:

We already have an LCC in Quebec. It's called Sunwing, and honestly it's the only one that we'll have here. American LCCs don't fly to Canada, so there's that. Domestic demand is not high at all from Quebec to other places, so Canadian LCCs or ULCCs don't fly here very much. The only low cost thing that really works is the south and europe in the summer, which is already covered by a lot of low cost airlines (Level, Corsair, Sunwings, etc. )

Completely agree with you.  We're Europe and Sun destination seekers rather than a "hey let's travel within Canada" society.  Montreal also plays a key role as a quasi-hub for the Eastern provinces' travel to those areas of the world too.   

Personally, I'd much rather see TAP (though having Azores Air is nice), Iberia or LOT flying into Montreal rather than slots being taken by Southwest.   

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I agree on TAP. And Iberia. Would love to see them here again.

I think though with the right marketing and right price an LCC could convince Quebecers to visit the rest of Canada and vv.  There seems to be little effort to do that and the lack of LCC’s serving YUL/YQB doesn’t help. I’ve never heard Sunwing described as an LCC either. Technically it is but more southern vacation oriented and would include Air Transat and Rouge in that category. That’s not the same as Swoop or Flair which I suppose are ULCC’s which was more where I was heading with my comment or at least lower cost carriers a la Southwest  with intra North American flights. 

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il y a 20 minutes, caribb a dit :

I agree on TAP. And Iberia. Would love to see them here again.

I think though with the right marketing and right price an LCC could convince Quebecers to visit the rest of Canada and vv.  There seems to be little effort to do that and the lack of LCC’s serving YUL/YQB doesn’t help. I’ve never heard Sunwing described as an LCC either. Technically it is but more southern vacation oriented and would include Air Transat and Rouge in that category. That’s not the same as Swoop or Flair which I suppose are ULCC’s which was more where I was heading with my comment or at least lower cost carriers a la Southwest  with intra North American flights. 

You can include Air Transat and Rouge if you want, it's still the same. The typical LCC customer base in Quebec goes to two places: sun destinations and Europe. Giving them heavily discounted flights to visit the Okanagan won't suddenly make them want to go there on vacation. The typical summer vacation in Quebec is somewhere else in Quebec, southern Ontario or the american northeast, which are all doable by car. If you wanna make money with them, you're better off with tolls. 

All this is normal. We're just not as attached to the rest of the continent than our American and Canadian counterparts. Make no mistakes, plenty of people in Quebec travel to other places (I have friends who go to Palm Springs 6 times a year for example), but those usually don't mind paying for legacy carriers. Keep in mind also that the competition is much less intense here than in the US. They don't have any issues filling planes in America. Out of Montreal though, sometimes Air Canada opening a route means the entire O/D traffic is captured through it. Plus Air Canada has a huge loyal customer base here. 

All this to say, the only airline in Quebec that resembles an LCC is Sunwing. They're low cost, low frills, they fly from secondary airports to very popular low cost destinations like Cuba or Mexico. 

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37 minutes ago, ERJ-Boy said:

You can include Air Transat and Rouge if you want, it's still the same. The typical LCC customer base in Quebec goes to two places: sun destinations and Europe. Giving them heavily discounted flights to visit the Okanagan won't suddenly make them want to go there on vacation. The typical summer vacation in Quebec is somewhere else in Quebec, southern Ontario or the american northeast, which are all doable by car. If you wanna make money with them, you're better off with tolls. 

All this is normal. We're just not as attached to the rest of the continent than our American and Canadian counterparts. Make no mistakes, plenty of people in Quebec travel to other places (I have friends who go to Palm Springs 6 times a year for example), but those usually don't mind paying for legacy carriers. Keep in mind also that the competition is much less intense here than in the US. They don't have any issues filling planes in America. Out of Montreal though, sometimes Air Canada opening a route means the entire O/D traffic is captured through it. Plus Air Canada has a huge loyal customer base here. 

All this to say, the only airline in Quebec that resembles an LCC is Sunwing. They're low cost, low frills, they fly from secondary airports to very popular low cost destinations like Cuba or Mexico. 

Ok I am fully aware of all this. Just forget Sunwing et al and southern destinations and Europe, I’m not talking about that. I’m referring Canadian/US LCC’s and ULCC’s flying internally in Canada and/or North America . My point is this type of service can be market to us and to other Canadians and nurtured like any other new destination YUL gets. You have to start somewhere. Do we not vacation in BC because we don’t normally go there or for the same price or lower we can go to France? I dunno really, maybe it would be different if it was much cheaper and we were more familiar with the BC region. I agree it’s much easier for Air Canada with a loyal customer base and onward connections but you pay extra for that in this scenario. LCC’s or at least ULCC’s are relatively new here, they too start fresh in every city they start flying to and have to grow their market. Yes it is a bit easier among the English speaking provinces with more scattered families and perhaps a more natural tendency to travel to/from them then from here... but if marketed correctly I believe they can grow traffic both ways (after all any route out of YUL isn’t solely dépendant on our need to use it, there is the inbound market as well). If Southwest comes here from BWI it’ll be the same thing. Maybe they’ll funnel us to Florida and the Caribbean or maybe to a Phoenix and the West Coast. Conversely they may funnel Americans here to connect to European and Asian flights, or to Western/Eastern Canada. btw I’m aware they have no connecting partner here. I’m thinking students and low cost travelers looking for cheap flights overseas in this instance.   I find it strange no one has really tried to even enter the Quebec market. Flair has expressed interest in YHU so maybe that’s the key, a low cost secondary airport. Maybe it’ll attract the likes of Southwest and JetBlue in the future. 

Edited by caribb

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il y a 20 minutes, caribb a dit :

Ok I am fully aware of all this. Just forget Sunwing et al and southern destinations and Europe, I’m not talking about that. I’m referring Canadian/US LCC’s and ULCC’s flying internally in Canada and/or North America . My point is this type of service can be market to us and to other Canadians and nurtured like any other new destination YUL gets. You have to start somewhere. Do we not vacation in BC because we don’t normally go there or for the same price or lower we can go to France? I dunno really, maybe it would be different if it was much cheaper and we were more familiar with the BC region. I agree it’s much easier for Air Canada with a loyal customer base and onward connections but you pay extra for that in this scenario. LCC’s or at least ULCC’s are relatively new here, they too start fresh in every city they start flying to and have to grow their market. Yes it is a bit easier among the English speaking provinces with more scattered families and perhaps a more natural tendency to travel to/from them then from here... but if marketed correctly I believe they can grow traffic both ways (after all any route out of YUL isn’t solely dépendant on our need to use it, there is the inbound market as well). If Southwest comes here from BWI it’ll be the same thing. Maybe they’ll funnel us to Florida and the Caribbean or maybe to a Phoenix and the West Coast. Conversely they may funnel Americans here to connect to European and Asian flights, or to Western/Eastern Canada. btw I’m aware they have no connecting partner here. I’m thinking students and low cost travelers looking for cheap flights overseas in this instance.   I find it strange no one has really tried to even enter the Quebec market. Flair has expressed interest in YHU so maybe that’s the key, a low cost secondary airport. Maybe it’ll attract the likes of Southwest and JetBlue in the future. 

I agree with you that new air services generate demand, but the basic trends stay. The thing that prevents LCCs or ULCCs from operating here is not that we vacation in Europe and in the South, it's that we don't have enough people who are from these other places who live here. That's what drives Swoop and Spirit and Southwest. It's all to carry people around to go where they're from and come back to where they work. We have none of that in Quebec, or at least, we have none of that far enough so that they'll fly. What drives our passenger numbers to BC is much more connecting and business traffic than VFR O/D. 

And we should add that JetBlue and Southwest don't correspond to true LCCs anymore. They slowly drifted to a hub and spoke model, their prices are frankly not the lowest anymore and compete with the legacy carriers. That's what would support an assumption that they will start flying to Canada at some point. 

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19 minutes ago, ERJ-Boy said:

I agree with you that new air services generate demand, but the basic trends stay. The thing that prevents LCCs or ULCCs from operating here is not that we vacation in Europe and in the South, it's that we don't have enough people who are from these other places who live here.

Interesting but is VFR really the main driver? I can see that being true in the US at certain times of the year, Thanksgiving, Christmas and Easter when people go home to visit their families. I also can envision a lot of families going to Disney World or Hollywood or New York City cheaply plus a lot of student travel. I’m sure some companies send their employees on these flights to keep costs down too but I don’t know what is the true main driver come the end of any fiscal year. Do you have any links to a site that may look at this more in-depth? ..and is it the same for Canada or are we different? Canadians as a whole don’t move around between provinces as much as Americans do among US states but what I’ve read but yes more among English Canadians than French Canadians and yes that will factor in. An LCC might want to try YUL-YQB as a tag on to to say YYZ or YVR-YOW-YUL. Just a thought but maybe all with YHU instead if that ever materializes .

btw, your completely right about The changing role of Southwest and JetBlue.. you can add Westjet to that group as well. 

Edited by caribb

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il y a 59 minutes, caribb a dit :

Interesting but is VFR really the main driver? I can see that being true in the US at certain times of the year, Thanksgiving, Christmas and Easter when people go home to visit their families. I also can envision a lot of families going to Disney World or Hollywood or New York City cheaply plus a lot of student travel. I’m sure some companies send their employees on these flights to keep costs down too but I don’t know what is the true main driver come the end of any fiscal year. Do you have any links to a site that may look at this more in-depth? ..and is it the same for Canada or are we different? Canadians as a whole don’t move around between provinces as much as Americans do among US states but what I’ve read but yes more among English Canadians than French Canadians and yes that will factor in. An LCC might want to try YUL-YQB as a tag on to to say YYZ or YVR-YOW-YUL. Just a thought but maybe all with YHU instead if that ever materializes .

btw, your completely right about The changing role of Southwest and JetBlue.. you can add Westjet to that group as well. 

VFR is a big driver for low cost airlines, simply because that's what their marketing is targeting: the general travelling public who don't want to pay a lot for flights. Businesses don't pick an airline based on fares. It picks based on where the airline flies, how easy connections are and frequent flyer status. That's why flights to New York and Chicago are super expensive but flights to Florida, which is twice the distance, are half the price on Air Canada. 

The problem with Quebec is that everything is so close (relatively speaking). YUL-YQB is so short that people drive there, and business people take the train. Same goes with Ottawa. 

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