griffintown Station Griffintown – Bernard-Landry - Discussion

[Stu]

Pour plusieurs, Landry était un méchant. Il (et le PQ) a provoqué des sentiments de colère, d'impuissance, de nausée. Ces sentiments meurent lentement, d'où la réaction viscérale, même après tant d'années. Mais, comme d'autres l'ont souligné, Landry a également fait beaucoup pour notre province. Pour les plaignants, il est parfois bon de nommer des lieux pour les méchants. Cela rend la vie plus intéressante.

[Southwark]

1 hour ago, mk.ndrsn said:

Is that so? Places routinely change name officially and unofficially to be more of significance to the people that occupy those spaces. It’s not a sacrilegious act to change the name of things. However, toponomy and geography matters when naming transit stations. Being coherent matters when developing a city. If naming the station Bernard Landry is particularly important, than we should co-brand la cite du multimedia as something like “District Landry”, “Bourg-Landry”, or rename a street or other landmark around the station. Some names were chosen because as a young nation we were eager to give some individuality to our spaces, but ultimately those names shouldn’t matter for the sole reason of being historic. I don’t mind keeping those names, but no, changing them is not a bad thing at all.

Changing names happens all the time, yes, but that does not mean it is always a good thing or even that most people agree with it. Unless the name is extremely generic, or the figure is unanimously viewed negatively, it should be avoided. They should put controversial name changes to a vote. Just like statue removal should be voted on. It's the only fair way of deciding that lets everyone feel they were consulted.

But renaming something else in this area after Bernard Landry without a vote on the matter would be even more controversial.

Especially erasing the name of an Irish person (like William McCord, the namesake of William Street).

Something new, no problem. Name the park and the station after him. That is a good compromise.

Modifié 23 juin 2020 par Southwark

[chl94]

il y a 5 minutes, Southwark a dit :

Changing names happens all the time, yes, but that does not mean it is always a good thing or even that most people agree with it. Unless the name is extremely generic, or the figure is unanimously viewed negatively, it should be avoided. They should put controversial name changes to a vote. Just like statue removal should be voted on. It's the only fair way of deciding that lets everyone feel they were consulted.

But renaming something else in this area after Bernard Landry without a vote on the matter would be even more controversial.

Especially erasing the name of an Irish person (like William McCord, the namesake of William Street).

Et la rue Ottawa, son nom est important? Le nom de la capitale, tellement original. En plus elle aboutit en plein coeur de la cité multimédia, ça pourrait être une option.

[danny12345]

11 minutes ago, Southwark said:

Changing names happens all the time, yes, but that does not mean it is always a good thing or even that most people agree with it. Unless the name is extremely generic, or the figure is unanimously viewed negatively, it should be avoided. They should put controversial name changes to a vote. Just like statue removal should be voted on. It's the only fair way of deciding that lets everyone feel they were consulted.

But renaming something else in this area after Bernard Landry without a vote on the matter would be even more controversial.

Especially erasing the name of an Irish person (like William McCord, the namesake of William Street).

I do not believe Landry is unanimously viewed negatively.  I am confident (but don't have poll numbers) that the general population has a positive opinion of him.  The political and economic elites of Quebec also views the man very favorably.

Who would vote for the name?  Resident within 500 meters?  1000 meters?  Most of them are newcomers who purchased Griffintown condos, they would pick the name?  Users of the REM?  All Montrealers?  Everyone in Quebec as the provincial pays the lion share of the REM (thru direct subsidy, CDPQ, hydro..). All Canadians as the Fed are paying a share of the REM?  Voting might sound fair but in practice it could end up even more divisive.

You must have mentioned William street changing name hypothetical, as it is not being changed.

[Southwark]

2 minutes ago, chl94 said:

Et la rue Ottawa, son nom est important? Le nom de la capitale, tellement original. En plus elle aboutit en plein coeur de la cité multimédia, ça pourrait être une option.

It is a replacing a historic street name in the neighbourhood, and a name that is significant in Canada, so it's controversial, yes. It is not tied to the area specifically, but I still feel it would be better to put it to a vote.

[mk.ndrsn]

il y a 5 minutes, Southwark a dit :

Changing names happens all the time, yes, but that does not mean it is always a good thing or even that most people agree with it. Unless the name is extremely generic, or the figure is unanimously viewed negatively, it should be avoided. They should put controversial name changes to a vote. Just like statue removal should be voted on. It's the only fair way of deciding that lets everyone feel they were consulted.

But renaming something else in this area after Bernard Landry without a vote on the matter would be even more controversial.

Especially erasing the name of an Irish person (like William McCord, the namesake of William Street).

That name choice was as an act of nepotism, not a name chosen posthumously by the community.

[Southwark]

5 minutes ago, danny12345 said:

I do not believe Landry is unanimously viewed negatively.  I am confident (but don't have poll numbers) that the general population also has a positive opinion of him.  The political and economic elites of Quebec views the man very favorably.

Who would vote for the name?  Resident within 500 meters?  1000 meters?  Most of them are newcomers our purchased Griffintown condos, they would pick the name?  Users of the REM?  All Montrealers?  Everyone in Quebec as the provincial pays the lion share of the REM (thru direct subsidy, CDPQ, hydro..). All Canadians as the Fed are paying a share of the REM?  It might sound faid, but in practice it could end up even more divisive.

You must have mentioned William street changing name hypothetical, as it is not being changed.

By unanimously negatively, I am referring more to someone who almost everyone can agree was a bad person.

Premier Landry is not viewed unanimously negatively. He is controversial, but almost every historic or political figure is. I have no problem with naming something after him, as I said. But it is better to name something new (like they are doing with the station) and maybe with a park on Robert Bourassa. 

If they want to rename something, they should at least put it to a vote. I would suggest either everyone on the street in question, or maybe residents of the borough? But if it's done democratically, nobody can complain of the result.

[Miska]

Concernant le délai avec ouverture en 2023, il me semblent que le 2e est assez bourré de tuyaux de vapeur.

Sur une des images le bâtiment semble assez ouvert sur 2 étages, déplacerons t'ils les tuyaux ? Si oui ça doit être une asses longue et complexe job...

 

[Southwark]

6 minutes ago, mk.ndrsn said:

That name choice was as an act of nepotism, not a name chosen posthumously by the community.

Sure, but it didn't rename anything at the time as far as I'm aware. 

Put a renaming to a vote or don't do it. If the current residents of the area vote for the name of a street to be changed to Bernard Landry, so be it. But don't impose it on them.

Modifié 23 juin 2020 par Southwark

[ScarletCoral]

il y a 6 minutes, Miska a dit :

Concernant le délai avec ouverture en 2023, il me semblent que le 2e est assez bourré de tuyaux de vapeur.

Sur une des images le bâtiment semble assez ouvert sur 2 étages, déplacerons t'ils les tuyaux ? Si oui ça doit être une asses longue et complexe job...

 

Des conduits d'Énergir passe dans le bâtiment-pont pour chauffer/climatiser les édifices du centre-ville.
http://energirccu.com/fr/fonctionnement

 

Mais les tuyaux ne sont pas visibles de l'intérieur