YUL - Nouveau terminal

[_mtler_]

20 minutes ago, YMQ said:

Ok but ADM has to raise borrow capital that they can't afford given the revenue streams that are projected for the next 3-4 years. Square peg, round hole. 

How do you pay your line of credit if you have no income??

With another line of credit. Easy solution to everything these things. Bubble bursts in 3, 2, 1…

[mont royal]

Those who manage money wisely and judiciously are winners, not losers. To pretend that nothing has changed and that all is well would be the height of folly. Of course, it is disappointing...but they are displaying good stewardship of a public facility. Hats off to them and to their courage. One thing is almost a given...times will get better...some time.

[SameGuy]

8 hours ago, internationalx said:

Hopefully the more modest plan is at least a foundation -  a phase I let's say - for the more gracious/ambitious plan.  Enlarging the ramp to accommodate traffic for a passenger terminal with growth prospects shouldn't be asking that much. You can cover it in Phase II.  

A more modest roadmap was indeed the plan. The articles seem to say that instead of changing the roadmap to delay some of the major necessary — but not urgent — upgrades, they are instead going back to the drawing board and will likely build yet another half-assed project as they’ve done since the first expansion in the 1950s. I agree that they should just concentrate on the ground transportation centre (which includes the station), and delay the big project, intact, until more favourable economic conditions return.

The amount of money spent doing hodgepodge additions since ADM began operating YUL and YMX in 1992 — and charging passengers and carriers “airport improvement fees” — is astonishing.

What should have been done was to spend less overall to build an entirely new terminal on the north side of the airfield (along Reverchon, on land they own that is still used by Club de Golf Dorval, with virtually direct access to A-40 and A-13, then eventually shutter and demolish the old facilities on the south side. They could’ve looked to Detroit Metropolitan (DTW) for inspiration, which opened one of the best airports on the planet in 2002 with the commissioning of the McNamara Terminal, which allowed the closure and demolition of the Dave, Berry, and Smith terminals that dated from the 1940s with multiple hodgepodge additions of their own over the intervening decades. The extra space was then used to build the new North Terminal in 2008 to house non-SkyTeam member airlines. It really is “l’aéroport de l’avenir” (sounds familiar?).

[thenoflyzone]

On 2021-06-17 at 9:21 PM, SameGuy said:

A more modest roadmap was indeed the plan. The articles seem to say that instead of changing the roadmap to delay some of the major necessary — but not urgent — upgrades, they are instead going back to the drawing board and will likely build yet another half-assed project as they’ve done since the first expansion in the 1950s. I agree that they should just concentrate on the ground transportation centre (which includes the station), and delay the big project, intact, until more favourable economic conditions return.

The amount of money spent doing hodgepodge additions since ADM began operating YUL and YMX in 1992 — and charging passengers and carriers “airport improvement fees” — is astonishing.

What should have been done was to spend less overall to build an entirely new terminal on the north side of the airfield (along Reverchon, on land they own that is still used by Club de Golf Dorval, with virtually direct access to A-40 and A-13, then eventually shutter and demolish the old facilities on the south side. They could’ve looked to Detroit Metropolitan (DTW) for inspiration, which opened one of the best airports on the planet in 2002 with the commissioning of the McNamara Terminal, which allowed the closure and demolition of the Dave, Berry, and Smith terminals that dated from the 1940s with multiple hodgepodge additions of their own over the intervening decades. The extra space was then used to build the new North Terminal in 2008 to house non-SkyTeam member airlines. It really is “l’aéroport de l’avenir” (sounds familiar?).

I disagree.

Operationally speaking, a new (and only) terminal building near reverchon is a bad idea. It would be a nightmare in terms of movement of aircraft. Think about it. You land on 06R/24L, and then need to cross 06L/24R to get to the terminal. Bad idea. You're creating safety issues, instead of solving them. Notice the location of the new McNamara terminal at DTW. It's right in the middle of all their parallel runways, therefore minimizing runway crossings.

A cargo terminal near reverchon is a much better idea. It was part of the plan 10-15 years ago. Not anymore I think.

The terminal expansion drawn up by ADM 2 years ago was spot on in terms of enhancing operational efficacy/aircraft movement at YUL. This cannot be understated. Considering how congested the land around the airport is, and the fact that adding additional runways at YUL is not possible. It is very important to make the best use of the space you have, and the best use is a terminal building between your 2 runways, dual parallel taxiways along both your runway, and adequate rapid exit taxiways, all of which were part of the plan. You want to increase the capacity of your runways, not decrease it by having aircraft unnecessarily cross them every single time, or having poorly placed runway exits that aren't even high speed (24L). The plans drawn up by ADM were very good, and provided a necessary enhancement for any major airport around the globe, especially a congested one. I'm confident it will still happen, it will simply take longer.

Like YMQ implied, ADM is capital limited right now. They cannot start a multi billion dollar project when their financial situation is crippled. This news of the delay of these projects shouldn't surprise anyone. Arm yourselves with patience. Good things come to those who wait.

This being said, while we wait for a new terminal and everything that goes with it, there is a new taxiway that should open up at YUL later this year (although I have my doubts). For anyone interested with operational issues, the following link about the new taxiway brings to light some of the issues i wrote about above.

https://www.navcanada.ca/en/aip_sup_eng_2020_86.pdf

Modifié 24 juin 2021 par thenoflyzone

[SameGuy]

Nice points, thanks. I didn’t say a rebuild to the north would work today. But when YUL was handling fewer than half the current passengers and movements, a complete re-draw would’ve worked.

The new concourse under the 2018 plan doesn’t completely resolve taxiing issues, as it will only serve just over half the total movements eventually, while not solving any problems for the transborder concourse and the half of international inside the horseshoe. That said, the 2018 plan maximizes the potential of what can be done today with the old  runway layout, considering the land-side congestion you rightly mentioned.

[thenoflyzone]

The link in my post above is no longer working.

Here it is for those that still wish to see it.

https://www.navcanada.ca/en/aipsupeng202086.pdf

[SameGuy]

Yes thank you.

[cantochaleb]

sorry, out of the loop. Have there been any updates on the proposed 2035 plan with new renovations and new terminal?

[mtlurb]

Mercredi fin d’après midi, vol vers l’Europe. Là j’ai réellement senti qu’on est à l’étroit dans le terminal. Y avait vraiment mais vraiment beaucoup de monde et le corridor central semble mal adapté. 
 

Pour une certaine raison j’ai toujours voyagé à des heures hors normes, mais là WoW. 

[SameGuy]

Yup.