Air Canada De-rouges YUL-FCO for S16

[caribb]

I think your right. Fingers crossed. Swiss may be affected too which isn't necessarily good. I'm anxious to se e the 787s here though. I hope they come. At the moment they really are focusing on Toronto & Vancouver. They just starting Calgary so in true fashion we would be forth in line.. Would be nice to see Westjet do something (anything) here let alone a 767 route but I feel that's hopeless. There are days I wish they'd just pack up and leave.

[Alexcaban]

I think your right. Fingers crossed. Swiss may be affected too which isn't necessarily good. I'm anxious to se e the 787s here though. I hope they come. At the moment they really are focusing on Toronto & Vancouver. They just starting Calgary so in true fashion we would be forth in line.. Would be nice to see Westjet do something (anything) here let alone a 767 route but I feel that's hopeless. There are days I wish they'd just pack up and leave.

 

Its really not that bad at all Air Canada has done some great work here at YUL. I'd say we got more additions here at YUL then at YVR for next year. Forget about YYZ, we all know that their the #1 hub. If anything the loser for next year is YYC/YEG.

 

Just to review.

 

YUL-CDG, double daily B77W

YUL-LYS, B763

YUL-CMN, rouge

YUL-NCE/BCN/VCE, each get extra frequency

YUL-FCO, back to mainline (maybe not the best cause of the reduction of seats)

 

From YVR

 

YVR-Brisbane , new 787 service 3x weekly

YVR-LHR, double daily, new flight 789

 

From YYC

With Westjet as the #1 carrier at YYC and them starting LGW is shocks me that AC cancelled their 2nd 4x weekly flight to LHR. But there's still the possibility of putting a 77W on the route.

The 787s out of YYC are only temporary due to the re configuration of the 777s/A330s

 

So don't be to bummed, I feel only good thing will come from AC in the future. They need to work on Connections from the US by adding routes like SAN, SEA, PHX, DEN, PHL, PIT, CVG , CLE.

That said we'll get our first 787 route soon. If its not BRU or TLV look forward to Shanghai.

Modifié 2 novembre 2015 par Alexcaban

[caribb]

I was referring to Westjet. I know Air Canada has done all that. In fact they are the only one pushing expansion here. Despite that though I have concerns. They've designated YUL as a hub to French or French oriented cities which I totally get and think is great but.. It's penning us into a corner. That may work for Air Canada ( which is starting to look like an Air Toronto lately) but it isn't really great for the ville de Montréal if we become dependent on code shares or foreign carriers for everything else. Air Canada will never fly to Shanghai from here, it's not a French city. It'll be a Chinese airline or code share if that can work (likely Beijing to Shanghai on CA). The only other route that may work eventually is to Narita Tokyo with a code share on Star Alliance partner ANA but that won't be viable for a while. What other workable Star hub in Asia on Air Canada's route map is left where they can use their partners planes to Yul? I think all this it will ultimately limit growth for Montreal relative to YYZ by keeping Air Canada planes there to expand their global hub even though it will work just fine for their needs. Our overall needs however may not be the same.

Modifié 2 novembre 2015 par caribb

[Alexcaban]

I was referring to Westjet. I know Air Canada has done all that. In fact they are the only one pushing expansion here

 

Oh I know I was just trying to show that not getting 787 service is not the end of the world.

 

But don't even get me started on Westjet, I think its pathetic that as Canada's 2nd largest city we can even get a proper expansion or even a few routes. I think they would really stir the pot if they entered the Paris market from YUL, but i'm not holding my breath.

[caribb]

Yeah I hear ya... We've gone from their 7th largest hub to their 10th now.. Even Las Vegas now is bigger and more important to them. And we hit 4 million people in the last census if I recall.. Still the 2nd largest city in the country... I don't want to start either LOL

[ERJ-Boy]

I am not too worried for YUL at the moment... Air Canada will expand the base as a specialized hub, which is good for now. Then, I can see some destinations like PVG or NRT becoming important enough to warrant a direct flight from YUL. At some point when there is enough traffic it will be more useful for Air Canada to provide direct flights rather than connections.

[FlyboyMTL]

In fact they (Air Canada) are the only one pushing expansion here. .

 

In case you have been living under a rock, all these routes Air Canada are starting, have been operated from YUL direct for many years, by Air Transat. I understand the target market is a bit different between the two carriers, and TS by no means has the hubbing and connecting power of AC, but I don't think we should be ignorant towards their impact on YUL. One of the only reasons you see AC doing major expansion to FCO, BRU, GVA, VCE, LYS, NCE, etc and LGW from YYZ is directly to combat Air Transat. I don't see Air Canada operating direct to Budapest, Prague, or Marseilles, but they surely will in the near future. Pretty much every trans-atlantic market Air Canada has entered (mostly with Rouge), was initially started by Air Transat. Don't forget they're starting Pisa and Glasgow direct from YUL next year as well as developing a connecting market with domestic feeder flights from YHZ, YYZ and YQB to YUL. All this sounds like an airline also pushing expansion from YUL.

 

Don't get me wrong, I am not bashing Air Canada at all. I am very happy Air Canada is showing an increased presence in YUL, and there's no doubt more competition and more flights is a good thing for YUL as a whole. Deep down though, I can't help but feel sometimes it's just to provide competition as TS is fueling the demand for direct flights, something AC has neglected for a long, long time. I feel that if given a choice, they would do as WestJet, and just send everything to Toronto, but they would lose too much market to TS who actually has a interest in growing YUL.

 

Cheers

[YUL]

...Don't get me wrong, I am not bashing Air Canada at all. I am very happy Air Canada is showing an increased presence in YUL, and there's no doubt more competition and more flights is a good thing for YUL as a whole. Deep down though, I can't help but feel sometimes it's just to provide competition as TS is fueling the demand for direct flights, something AC has neglected for a long, long time. I feel that if given a choice, they would do as WestJet, and just send everything to Toronto, but they would lose too much market to TS who actually has a interest in growing YUL...

 

D'accord avec toi à 100%.

 

J'applaudit la présence grandissante d'AC a YUL. Mais aussi, je trouve plate que, dans la plupart des cas, ça soit au dépend d’Air Transat, qui a développé le marché en premier. En tant que consommateur, j'essai d’encourager AT lorsque cela fait du sens (en plus, l'Aéroplan actuel n'étant pas un incitatif très fort...)

Modifié 2 novembre 2015 par YUL

[SkahHigh]

In case you have been living under a rock, all these routes Air Canada are starting, have been operated from YUL direct for many years, by Air Transat. I understand the target market is a bit different between the two carriers, and TS by no means has the hubbing and connecting power of AC, but I don't think we should be ignorant towards their impact on YUL. One of the only reasons you see AC doing major expansion to FCO, BRU, GVA, VCE, LYS, NCE, etc and LGW from YYZ is directly to combat Air Transat. I don't see Air Canada operating direct to Budapest, Prague, or Marseilles, but they surely will in the near future. Pretty much every trans-atlantic market Air Canada has entered (mostly with Rouge), was initially started by Air Transat. Don't forget they're starting Pisa and Glasgow direct from YUL next year as well as developing a connecting market with domestic feeder flights from YHZ, YYZ and YQB to YUL. All this sounds like an airline also pushing expansion from YUL.

 

Don't get me wrong, I am not bashing Air Canada at all. I am very happy Air Canada is showing an increased presence in YUL, and there's no doubt more competition and more flights is a good thing for YUL as a whole. Deep down though, I can't help but feel sometimes it's just to provide competition as TS is fueling the demand for direct flights, something AC has neglected for a long, long time. I feel that if given a choice, they would do as WestJet, and just send everything to Toronto, but they would lose too much market to TS who actually has a interest in growing YUL.

 

Cheers

Very pertinent post. Air Canada is not stupid. If ever they see an AT flight performing well, they will go after it, especially if having a direct flight is more profitable than connecting at YYZ. They're not exactly the same (AC mainline vs. AT) so YUL could do well with, let's say, two different carriers going to FCO. Just like WOW air and Icelandair can both work at YUL, despite offering the same destination.

[caribb]

I agree with Mark, I don't think it's all about Air Transat either... yes to some degree for sure as all airlines keep an eye on the competition and want too keep or gain market share.. but he's right, it's more about the ability to expand.

 

I'm also concerened about YUL's position. Above posters has said AC will likely eventually fly YUL to Tel Aviv, Prague, Budapest, Shanghai.. well, I'll repeat until everyone gets it.. AC made YUL it's francophone hub. They will expand to francophone and French oriented (read Casablanca/Beirut) cities ONLY.. Any other city will be on Rouge, a Star member's plane or joint venture code share or a one off code share or nothing at all. They don't fly their metal to Munich.. they've put their actual planes to Geneva, Brussels, Lyon and Nice, Southern Europe is all Rouge. (Rome was already established before the the hub designation was solifdified). If they fly to any new business city it will not be on an Air Canada plane. They'll funnel as much as they can through Beijing on Air China for Asia.. if they open Tokyo using ANA sometime in the next 15 years they'll do the same.. I really don't see where else they will expand to other than through Rouge in the future and to a handfull of leisure cities in France, the Middle East and Africa. not that any of this is terrible, it is expansion afterall but contrained and very contained expansion.. We will eventually need flights to Latin America, Sao Paulo, India, some other Asian cities that will be outside this business model and they will be much more difficult to obtain id AC isn't pushing for the service themselves. Toronto meanwhile will flourish as AC will expand as much as they can and to where ever they feel they need to from YYZ. He's right, that will hurt YUL and it may suck a few airlines away from here to there. The mayor for all his lack of power at least gets it but other than crying out publically I really don't know what he or anyone can do if this all really takes off.

Modifié 2 novembre 2015 par caribb