Half of Quebec non-francophones consider leaving

[Habsfan]

Bravo Habsfan. You're what Sugar Sammy calls the educated Quebeckers who is wordly, and sees what's happening outside of our "gros village" named Montreal. Toronto is destroying us.

 

The fact that Toronto has surpassed us as the economic centre of Canada no longer bothers me! Even had the separatist movement never existed in the 70's, it was just a matter of time before Toronto surpassed Montreal. What does bother me however, is that while the rest of Canada is prospering, we are stagnating! And what's even more frustrating is when I read ignorant comments from ignorant people who say that the damn english should just leave if they aren't happy in Québec or that we should tax the rich even more. Talk about small minded!!

[IluvMTL]

Petit peuple. Qui va payer les taxes et les impots si nos plus intelligents partent pour d'autre cieux. Small minded.

 

I thought Passant summed it up pretty well.

 

We are who we are because a democratic majority decided it was we wanted. You have to respect that. That's why it is probably better if the people who complain about it and are unhappy with that fact leave the province or try to do something constructive to change the opinion of those who are relatively satisfied with the way things are going.

 

For a lot of people economic issues are not that important, whether you agree with them or not. These people feel far removed from the debt situation and vote for other reasons. The more you talk about a dire economy , the less you are likely to get votes. That's could be why the CAQ is third in the polls. And the Québec Liberal party only has the support of about 25% of francophones. Pas fort...

[Habsfan]

These people feel far removed from the debt situation and vote for other reasons.

 

That's because the vast majority of these people are ignorant. Let's keep piling on the debt...260 billion$ isn't enough...lets spend like there's no tomorrow..let's boost our debt to 500 billion$. It'll only cost us 20 billion$ per year just to pay the interest. While we're at it, let's look at our aging population. Because of this, our Health costs will continue to increase and because our population is aging, in 20 years we will have 2 workers for each retired person (vs 5 workers for each retired person today). Who will pay for this???

 

All this is OK, cause money grows on trees, and if we wish for it hard enough, all our problems will magically disappear!

 

Just because the majority of the population is ignorant on the impact our huge debt will have on us in the near future, doesn't mean it's OK to ignore it!

Modifié 26 février 2014 par Habsfan

[IluvMTL]

Some (enough) people who vote choose to minimize the importance of the debt , what can you do about that?

 

BMO today, la CAQ and others before them tried to present strategies to reverse this situation, but the message doesn't seem to take hold with enough people to make a difference in concrete policies. The media has a large part to play in this, but they give back what their viewers want. It's a vicious circle.

[IluvMTL]

so your defending ignorant Quebec voters and then wondering why people who pay taxes and try to do honest business want out?

 

I certainly wouldn't insult people who exercise their right to vote and express their desires, whether I agree with them or not. They should be applauded. And you shouldn't intrepret my words to suit your thoughts.

And imo, if there is anyone who is ignorant, it's those who do not vote. They have no right to criticize.

[Né entre les rapides]

There might be other issues (such as high taxes, language), but if debt is "your" issue, please consider that over the last 15 years or so, Quebec has taken it (the issue of debt) very seriously indeed, with significant, albeit not total success. Of course, the accumulated debt (the product of past deficits) remains abnormaly high. But if you examine current trends ie, current deficit/GDP ratios, you cannot ignore that Ontario is in a much more difficult situation. And worldwide, our good friends in the USA, the UK and Japan still happily resort to QE (Quantitative Easing, essentially consisting of having the central bank "purchasing" government debt). Sure, they talk of "tapering", but they are still addicted as of now. All in all, I would not hesitate to say that we in Quebec have and continue to take a comparatively responsible approach to what is admittedly a serious matter. And finally, please bear in mind that the tools available to a provincial government are somewhat limited -- which also explain in part why Ontario is also struggling.

[IluvMTL]

It's all about perception, and not so much the 'facts'. Most politicians and so-called experts use stats to promote their own agenda. That's where the media can try to educate the populace...I doubt most people who were polled, and the average Joe in general, has any understanding or interest in the Quebec economy. If they 'believe' it is bad or mismanaged, they'll hold on to that belief, especially if their party of choice is not in power. And if our party is in power, well we find stats to show that our situation isn't as bad as other jurisdictions. It's a war of numbers and that's why most people don't follow it and don't trust politiicans...

Modifié 26 février 2014 par IluvMTL

[steve_36]

We are who we are because a democratic majority decided it was we wanted. You have to respect that.

 

The problem is that too often it is the rest of Québec that dictates how we will be govern and most of the time it is against Montréal or at least not in favour of Montréal. The democratic majority means the rest of Québec can impose it's views on Montréal and at one point it becomes frustrating for most of us, montrealers.

 

Therefor i can understand why some people might consider leaving and why others have already left. We can only deal with a certain amount of things but eventually too much is too much. The anglos that have stayed here despite the language laws have integrated pretty well, but now with the charter and the uncertain economic situation coupled with the constant threat of reinforcing the language law again may be too much.

 

For myself, i have two nieces, fully bilingual, that have left Montréal in the past 6/7 years or so. One for Ottawa and one for California. Others are talking about it and even my francophone cousins. They say they are fed up with taxes and the goverment being everywhere.

 

I, myself, could consider leaving if the goverment doesn't give Montréal the liberty it deserve in order to shine once again. I want to live in a city that is thriving, that is dynamic and that is filled with vibrant positive energy. A city that is getting bigger and bigger, growing in population and in businesses. A city that is multicultural, bilingual and recognized for being the secong biggest french city in the world. I want to live in a city where the energy is put towards making sure we are doing better and not to harass people constantly. I want people that are trying all they can to come and live here and not trying to leave because of the high taxes. I want people to buy their products here and not tryng to saves taxes by going to Plattsburgh or Ontario.

 

The various goverments keeps telling us that they are listening to the people. Bullshit...because all I hear from my friends, family members, my co-workers, my out of the country friends etc...is that there is too much taxes up here....and the goverments are doing a damn thing about it.

 

Just for the record. My brother in law, a unilingual francophone, just made his first trip to Florida at the age of 37. He would like to move there....not because of the warm weather but because there is a lot less taxes there and everything seems to cost less! And he is (was) a die hard sovereignist !

[ça coute cher]

voici un article dans la presse sur le même sujet:

 

http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/montreal/201402/25/01-4742490-malaise-croissant-chez-les-anglophones.php

 

Les nouvelles économiques des derniers mois n'aide pas la donne: SAQ, Casino, Hydro-Québec, Postes Canada, annonce de mises a pied, Les projets de Cimenterie en Gaspésie au profit de celle de Delson (Lafarge), des tarifs d'électricités, hausse de 5.8% mais presque gratuite pour les alumineries, hausse certaine des tarifs de garderies peu importe le gouvernement, des sondages favorables au gouvernement péquiste, une dette provinciale la plus élevé d'Amérique du Nord crée de toute pièce par la génération des baby boomers, maintenant c'est nous qui devons payé leur carte de crédit. Des taxes et retenues au particuliers qui sont aussi je crois les plus élevés d'Amérique du Nord. Je comprend ceux qui veulent partir....

A tort ou a raison, j'ai le sentiment (et probablement ceux de plusieurs Montréalais) que c'est exactement ce que veut le gouverment péquiste, crée les conditions gagnantes...

[peekay]

OFFICIALLY settled in Toronto! Au revoir crumbling province....

 

This is the facebook status of my good friend. Earning over $100,000 a year here.

He is the second this year to leave. Number 8(!) of my graduate class in 2004. Fully bilingual and intelligent citizen.