Americans flee north to Canada for economic opportunity

[uqam+]

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Modifié 10 novembre 2011 par uqam+

[Cyrus]

 

Les lois arbitraires abondent. Je me souviens d'un reportage sur certains États du sud où l'on voyait un jeune homme de 15 ans mis en prison pour avoir fait l'amour à sa copine du même âge. Après sa sortie de prison, on lui a collé une interdiction d'approcher de toutes les écoles de l'état et de tous les trajets d'autobus scolaire de l'État, ce qui réduisait à presque rien sa mobilité. Vive la liberté américaine !

 

Pire c'est les cas d'un homme 18 ans + 1 mois qu'est trouve avec sa copine de 17 ans + 11 mois qui va au prison et sort etre un predateur sexuel et devient persona non grata partout... fou raide!

[TomOfBoston]

If the US Constitution had a "notwithstanding" clause, the South would still be segregated.

 

Last year, after that creepy blond American (Ann Coulter?) conservative was prevented from speaking at the University of Ottawa, a U of O official was questioned by a reporter as to whether Coulter had been denied freedom of speech. The U of O official replied that freedom of speech was an American value.

[VILLEMARIE]

Freedom is not anarchy. If what I say or do causes harm or injustice to someone else I will have to pay the consequences for it. Does this mean I was denied my "freedom" to do/say whatever I like, or is the actual definition of freedom being under the control of a just government?

[Cyrus]

Freedom is not anarchy. If what I say or do causes harm or injustice to someone else I will have to pay the consequences for it. Does this mean I was denied my "freedom" to do/say whatever I like, or is the actual definition of freedom being under the control of a just government?

 

I would say freedom is that you may do as you wish as long as you don't infringe on someone else's right to do same. Killing someone obviously deprives that person of their liberty, stealing their stereo obviously deprives them of their liberty to own property, etc. Putting a Tempo shelter on your driveway (illegal in the West Island of Montreal and several other areas) may offend your annoying neighbour's eyes but he should go and fuck himself. Something like freedom of speech cannot possibly harm the rights of another in and of itself so cannot have any limitation - yet we do, and they are quite arbitrary and numerous...

[ToxiK]

Something like freedom of speech cannot possibly harm the rights of another in and of itself so cannot have any limitation - yet we do, and they are quite arbitrary and numerous...

 

Do you consider the classic example of screaming "FIRE" in a crowded theater a bad limitation of freedom of speach?

[montréaliste]

There are unfortunately countless examples of how the right of free speech is alienated in both the US and CANADA, but I would not put one above the other in the liberty stakes. The notwithsatnding clause may actually be deemed a right of veto or expression, not necessarily secession, even if it can lead to that. In the 40 years leading up to the civil war, there were many accomodations that went above and beyond the constitutional rights guaranteed on individual states. Some states like Vermont have a state constitution that includes a clause about the right to secede from the union. There is a movement to secede in Vermont in fact, and some people even advocated joining Quebec during the Irak war because they thought their values were better reflected there than in the union. Just saying...

[uqam+]

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Modifié 10 novembre 2011 par uqam+

[Cyrus]

Do you consider the classic example of screaming "FIRE" in a crowded theater a bad limitation of freedom of speach?

 

It's a classic and unlikely occurrence, as basically it isn't possible to limit, nobody is going to catch you if it sparks a stampede. Better - just provide proper emergency egress and fire alarms/sprinklers from the theatre (as is typical here) and then regardless of screaming idiots or indeed actual fires, the problem is eliminated

 

Sometimes in nightclubs in Montreal there are too many people for efficient emergency egress, but people shouting fire won't be able to be heard anyway... then again, modern cinemas pump the volume pretty loud too!

[ToxiK]

It's a classic and unlikely occurrence, as basically it isn't possible to limit, nobody is going to catch you if it sparks a stampede. Better - just provide proper emergency egress and fire alarms/sprinklers from the theatre (as is typical here) and then regardless of screaming idiots or indeed actual fires, the problem is eliminated

 

Sometimes in nightclubs in Montreal there are too many people for efficient emergency egress, but people shouting fire won't be able to be heard anyway... then again, modern cinemas pump the volume pretty loud too!

 

The idiot in question just has to scream: "I have a bomb". The official alarm system would not be automatically activated like it would be if there was a real fire. And with terrorism fear and crazy people doing stuff like that for real, panic could easily be started.