Quebec losing young people to interprovincial migration, report shows

[ToxiK]

Il y a 3 heures, mark_ac a dit :

 

Our economy is booming because the global economy is too. Yet, Quebec's economic growth pace still doesn't keep pace on a relative scale.

Our visions are totally different. I want Montreal to become a global and worldly cosmopolitan city that exemplifies our country (Canada),  our pvorvince, while preserving and flourishing the local culture. Your vision is of a provincial, small, incremental, lovable city that is regionally relevant. I'm talking a global city, you're advocating a provincial capital. 

This is why young, talented, educated and ambitious talents considers careers outside Montreal. We've lost our dream to think big, to be confident and position our city in the global conversation. It's a real pity.

Montreal should be Canada and Quebec's world city.  Toxik - i'm happy to take you to Toronto for a weekend. I think you ought to spend some time there.

You seem to be contradicting yourself and you are definitely deforming what I said.  When someone says Montréal is doing something good, you keep refering to Toronto because they are doing something better.  In how many posts did you reference Toronto?  What I say it stop looking at Toronto and look at the world. Toronto is the champion Canada wants for itself.  They don't want Montréal.  Let's stop trying to impress Canada and focus on the world.  Our real estate is doing great now, but Toronto is doing better.  Good for them.  We are doing better than many cities around the world (and our real estate is still affordable).  The world economy is doing good, so we are doing good in part thanks to that.  But still we are doing better than in the past.  Their was an economic puge the last few decades.  Soft economic sectors were destroyed by foreign competition.  That purge had to ge done and not it is done.  We have an healthier economy then ever.  So does Toronto, so what?  We are developping state of the art sectors like AI and video games.  We are still a player in manufacturing.  We still have a good finance sector despite assault from Toronto to concentrate it all in their city (for the good of Canada, of course !).  So what if we are not number 1 in Canada?  We don't need to be the biggest fish in a small pond, we just need to be a strong fish on the ocean.  This is what I am saying from the beginning:  let's not aim to be Canada's champion city, nor even Québec's champion city (in both cases they wouldn't want Montr.éal to be their official champion), let's aim to be a world city in the world.  Let's not achieve that by being the richest, the most powerfull or the best at self promoting, but let's acomplish that by having the best quality of live and offer our citizens the best quality of life/cost of living ratio.

[Né entre les rapides]

Well well. Toronto is not merely «the biggest fish in a small pond».  On a continental scale, it is one of the biggies (and do not only look at population size, rather, consider GDP and financial clout).  And the «pond» (a.k.a. Canada) is not that small either, except in population terms.  But Toronto has its own problems, which stem to a large extent from a growth path (and rate) which has exceeded its capacity to accomodate it properly (traffic congestion, housing costs, etc.) Additionnally, the fiscal situation of Ontario (its home province) has seriously deteriorated, which cannot fail to have negative impacts on the competitiveness of the city as corrections are being imposed (fewer services and/or higher taxes and fees, despite promises to the contrary).

For its part, Montreal had definitely lost its status as Canada's number one city a while ago.  But even in the city's heyday, let us not forget that its manufacturing base was  disproportionately composed of low value-added sectors paying low wages.  Montreal had some rich people, but it was not a rich city.  And its home province (Quebec) was poorer,  which imposed a heavier burden on the few who made good money (following the Duplessis' years, ever since the beginning of the «Quiet Revolution» in 1960, when huge efforts to improve public services lead to very large increases in spending ...and taxes).

Today, Montreal has somehow miraculously recovered, but in a different form:  

1) No longer the financial hub of Canada, but still with a vibrant financial sector

2)  Successful high-tech firms in selected sectors

3) No longer the most populous city, but still growing ( in contrast to cities like Pittsburgh, which had to shed over one half of its population  before recovery could begin)

4)Much less dependent upon the Canadian market (thanks to the NAFTA and its predecessor the Canada-U.S. FTA)

5) More open to the world at large

6) A more educated and qualified workforce than previously

7) A seaport which is regaining its strategic importance, as the St. Lawrence Seaway  is  unable to handle the larger ships that dominate trade

8) Comparatively lower costs of living, due primarily to much lower housing costs and lower electricity rate, and despite an heavier tax burden overall

9) And last but not least: optimism has returned!

My concluding remarks at this time: Montreal is doing well, but it cannot hope to regain its former position as Canada's number one city.  I would further argue that such an outcome would not even be desirable, as it would imply an unbearable imbalance within the Province of Quebec.  (The reasons why it would be the case in the future, while it was not in the 1950's and before, are at least threefold: 1) Montreal was able to be Canada no 1 and not demographically overwhelm the Rest of Quebec because of the greater importance of rural regions at the time; 2) Toronto was smaller, so Montreal did not need to be that big; and 3) Toronto is now so big that for Montreal to become even bigger would imply a population count exceeding the current population of Quebec (allowing for some modest growth in Toronto).  This «assumption» far exceeds any population growth scenario for the next 50 years.  So forget it! 

 

[fmfranck]

J'aime les réflexions qui ont été générés par cet article. Et la logique revient fréquemment à ce point : Toronto est devenu la métropole économique du ROC, et c'est ben correct. C'est la ville "go-to" pour les anglos canadiens. Et y'a pas de mal à ça. Montréal peut se tirer d'affaire dans ce contexte. Comme plusieurs le souligne, avec la mondialisation, une ville n'a plus besoin d'être la capitale économique d'une emprise géographique disponible dans son État. Qui plus est, la vitalité économique ne se définit pas seulement par la croissance démographique absolue, mais par une courbe de croissance saine. À ce chapitre, Montréal est sur la bonne voie, n'en plaise à ceux qui veulent maximiser chaque aspect de la croissance démographique (immigration, natalité, etc). Si on peut s'améliorer sur certains aspects, on a pas à sacrifier des lois cadres et le modèle québécois pour y parvenir. Et si c'était le cas, les bénéfices ne valent pas les inconvénients engendrés selon moi. 

Modifié 30 juillet 2018 par fmfranck

[fmfranck]

1 hour ago, mark_ac said:

 

Pure utopia. We live in Canada, your passport says Canada, so does your currency and borders. You are a subject of the Bank of Canada, the companies that are based in Canada, the laws of Canada etc.  The vast majority of Quebec inc. does business within Canada.  Before conquering the world, kind of need to do well in your local economy first.

Not anymore. Thats common knowledge btw. 

[fmfranck]

The bigger corporations are older companies, that were created under the classical approach that you refer to. Startups and more recent smaller scale corporations (gaming industry, AI, etc) are not AT ALL dependent on the canadian market. 

[fmfranck]

I dont think we should look at companies individually to see where the future lies, its in the trend that we get our answer. Maybe the world is in a protectionnist phase at the moment (or at least, the US is trying to bring us in one), but overall the trend is with the ultra liberalisation of commerce. 

Dont get me started on that report, they included manifacturing. Has nothing to do with AI. 

[fmfranck]

"Circular conversation here we come, right back where we started from" ??

[fmfranck]

 

[ToxiK]

Il y a 11 heures, Né entre les rapides a dit :

9) And last but not least: optimism has returned!

 

Not for everyone (at least in this forum...)

[Faitlemou]

"Toronto stronk! Montreal weak! Your arguments are fantasy!"