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Voie réservée (emprise de la 440) - Le Fameux Boulevard 440


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Il y a 2 heures, montrealgoalie a dit :

How can you just come up with a percentage like that? 

Theres not only kids that get dropped off or picked up but also spouses and other people being picked up coming back from work. It's something that's popular at Sunnybrook station as well as Pierrefonds Roxboro and if I remember correctly bois franc had this too. 

I mean, you have to think it’s around that. Kiss-and-ride is not that common. Most people using commuter rail either use park-and-ride or walk/bike to the station.

We’re talking about the Kirkland station here, not the concept of kiss-and-ride for the REM as a whole. If the kiss-and-ride option is not attractive for the Kirkland/Timberlea residents, they can still go to the SADB (where there are 20 kiss-and-ride spots) or Pointe-Claire stations depending if the « parent » is going West or East to commute.

Sincerely, how should we expect West Islanders to become less car-dependent if we give them every opportunity to stay car-dependent?

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1 hour ago, SkahHigh said:

I mean, you have to think it’s around that. Kiss-and-ride is not that common. Most people using commuter rail either use park-and-ride or walk/bike to the station.

We’re talking about the Kirkland station here, not the concept of kiss-and-ride for the REM as a whole. If the kiss-and-ride option is not attractive for the Kirkland/Timberlea residents, they can still go to the SADB (where there are 20 kiss-and-ride spots) or Pointe-Claire stations depending if the « parent » is going West or East to commute.

Sincerely, how should we expect West Islanders to become less car-dependent if we give them every opportunity to stay car-dependent?

Why would you expect residents of a suburb to stop using their cars? It's not a dense area and even the smallest stores are a short car ride away. Most streets don't have a sidewalk so walking in winter is a pain. 

Do you live in the west island? 

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il y a 18 minutes, montrealgoalie a dit :

Why would you expect residents of a suburb to stop using their cars? It's not a dense area and even the smallest stores are a short car ride away. Most streets don't have a sidewalk so walking in winter is a pain. 

Do you live in the west island? 

No, but I do live in the suburbs. And I've been to the South Shore and the West Island my fair share of times.

I don't think anyone expects West Islanders to take the bus to do grocery shopping or pick up their kids at kindergarten. It's just that reducing car usage for short, useless trips that could be made by public transit (going to a metro station, doctor's appointment, school) helps put in place a more modern, healthy way of living. Of course, before the REM I wouldn't have expected West Islanders to take two buses just to get to Côte-Vertu as taking the car is much less of a hassle... But starting 2023, there will be 6 rapid transit stations between Pierrefonds and Sainte-Anne-de-Bellevue, so a change in transit patterns has to occur for the future. Eventually the West Island will densify and become much less suburban than it currently is (I'm talking 50 years here). It was unfortunately built the way it is, in an era where cars were the future and congestion was merely a thought. 

Transit implementation is more difficult in suburban areas, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try. It starts with bold decisions like the Boulevard 440 one. There are many examples in North America of suburbs that were shaped or re-shaped by public transit (our very own TMR, Toronto's North York, Chicago's North Shore, Cleveland's inner-ring suburbs, Boston's southernmost neighborhoods, Long Island, Staten Island...).

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In my opinion the addition of the REM in itself will contribute greatly to a change in habit amongst West Islanders. As the saying goes, "Build it and they will come"....but at the same time, you have to help them get there! 

The new boulevard must go all the way down to Gouin and it must be car accesible. Anything else would be a short-sighted mistake. I would absolutely love to see a modern boulevard with nice wide sidewalks, protected bike lanes and reserved bus lanes on each side... but also with 2 lanes of car traffic. Ideally, I would like to see a linear park integrated between the two sides of traffic. So, sidewalk, bike lane, bus lane, 2 x car lanes, park, 2 x car lanes, bus lane, bike lane, sidewalk. 

After personally living through numerous attempts (with many being successful) by Kirkland to cut off accessibility in Pierrefonds West, this move just stinks of more dirty politics. 

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On 2018-07-16 at 11:14 AM, fmfranck said:

Si tu veux que cette discussion cesse, tu devrait peut-être pas continuer le débat dans ce sujet. ?

Je trouve logique qu'on divise effectivement le sujet du REM pour ce qui est de composantes spécifiques d'intérêts (ou qui crée une polémique) : station bassin Peel, le "boulevard" 440, etc. 

the so called "440 boulevard"(speaks volume about Montreal's ability to plan and execute some sort of infrastructure vision: 440 is a highway in Laval.. that would never reach West Island) is an integral part of the REM project and I am surprised that CDPQ is not imposing conditions on municipalities and the province itself when it comes to ensuring easy access to this new public transportion option.

since is project is a business that needs to make money and recoup investment, ridership is key and just dropping stations on the map of West Island is not going to incentivize people to get on board at Kirkland, Fairview or Sources - if traffic conditions and access options don't make sense.

talking about bike lanes and large side walks is total BS here.

6 months a year at minus 10-20 with the wind with snowbanks higher than people is the reality that for some reason a lot of people from Valerie P. to a lot of contributors to this blog chose to ignore.

I hear a lot about "forcing people" to change habits and get on bikes...

is this really a serious discussion? Or are actually responsible for the sorry state of the Great Montreal's infrastructure development by simply contributing to a simplistic and unproductive assessment of the real needs of Montrealers?

no wonder wannabees like the last 3-4 mayors of Montreal are having a ball at running this great city into the ground.

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I don't find it funny at all because the issue here isn't "a single street". This boulevard may not exist, but it has been necessary for at least 10 years. At 7:40AM, whether you're in a bus or a car, it still takes 20 minutes to get from the corner of Antoine-Faucon and Chateau-Pierrefonds to St-Charles.  

As I said earlier, the REM itself will significantly increase public transit ridership in the West Island. And given the location of the Kirkland station at the Colisee and not at the corner of St-Charles and the 40 service road, this boulevard becomes indispendable. 

Promote the bus and bike lanes but car access is a must (from Gouin to the 40). 

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22 minutes ago, ERJ-Boy said:

You're pushing a little bit far... It's a street, in Kirkland. I find it funny how west islanders are going crazy about a single street, which doesn't even exist yet. All I've heard is how they need traffic on the west island to improve... that is precisely why they're building the REM. Yes habits have to change. Turns out that fitting 236 151 people on 150km2 makes it a little tough for traffic flows if everyone drives. 

At some point, the only way to increase ridership on west island bus lines is to make it more attractive for people to use the bus. It's not some part of a plot by Valerie Plante to Plateau-ize the west island, nor is it a plan to eradicate cars on the west island. It's simply a measure taken to generate more transit ridership in an area that will soon be served by a quick and efficient transit system (the REM). 

 

Its cause folks on the West Island understand what this means for their residential streets.  It means increased traffic which is the exact opposite of what the REM is supposed to accomplish.  I'd be up in arms about that as well.  

Eliminating the need for cars intelligently is one thing.  Doing so just for the heck of it without thought about the ramifications upon the existing network is an entirely different situation.  

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il y a 9 minutes, SKYMTL a dit :

Its cause folks on the West Island understand what this means for their residential streets.  It means increased traffic which is the exact opposite of what the REM is supposed to accomplish.  I'd be up in arms about that as well.  

Eliminating the need for cars intelligently is one thing.  Doing so just for the heck of it without thought about the ramifications upon the existing network is an entirely different situation.  

How will this increase traffic compared to the current situation? Since cars aren’t allowed on the new boulevard and a new boulevard with cars would increase car congestion on these streets significantly as well?

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il y a 13 minutes, SKYMTL a dit :

Its cause folks on the West Island understand what this means for their residential streets.  It means increased traffic which is the exact opposite of what the REM is supposed to accomplish.  I'd be up in arms about that as well.  

Eliminating the need for cars intelligently is one thing.  Doing so just for the heck of it without thought about the ramifications upon the existing network is an entirely different situation.  

Crois tu vraiment que les villes de Kirkland et Montréal, ainsi que le ministère des transports ont pris cette décision "for the heck of it"??!! Il y a des études qui sont faites pour ce genre de chose, et je le répète, si on veut favoriser le développement du transport en commun sur le west island, on a pas le choix de prendre des mesures préférentielles. 

Ça n'augmentera pas le traffic dans les rues résidentielles de Kirkland, ni sur Saint-Charles, car la présence même du REM et la hausse de l'achalandage des bus vers celui-ci permettra justement de libérer de l'espace sur les axes existants. 

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