andre md

La perte des sieges sociaux continue a Barcelona

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à l’instant, andre md a dit :

Non mais je sens une certaine insinuation dans ton propos comme si les castillans compte de nombreux fascistes. C'est un courant de pensée tres marginale. Il va toujours avoir des imbeciles qui vont faire le salut franquiste mais c'est des pauvres cons.  

La guerre civil espagnol date d'avant la deuxieme guerre mondial quand meme. Tout le monde de l'epoque sont morts ou a moitié mort. 

Le régime fasciste a seulement fini dans les années 70 quand même. Même chose au Portugal d'ailleurs.

 

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17 minutes ago, fmfranck said:

Le régime fasciste a seulement fini dans les années 70 quand même. Même chose au Portugal d'ailleurs.

 

Oui mais on est maintenant en 2017 . Le fascisme est terminé. essayer de ramener ca sur le tapis pour justifier l'independance c'est de la mauvaise foi.  Quand meme drole que le Catalan et le basques ont survecu meme si Franco est mort en 75.   Apres la guerre Franco n'a quand meme pas été un tyran absolu.

Un pays tres democratique comme la France . Il reste quoi du Breton et de l'occitan et du basques quasiment rien a comparer de l'Espagne. 

 

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Is Montreal really the way Barcelona wants to go?

Montreal lost 30% of its head offices when Quebec started making independence noises; in Barcelona, it may already be too late

06 October 2017 - 12:55 Lionel Laurent

Catalonia is starting to feel the "Montreal Effect" — before even deciding whether it will secede or not.

Top firms are weighing whether to leave the region, one of the richest in Spain, rather than face the risk of being cut off from the eurozone, the wider EU and the international investment community in the wake of an unofficial referendum that Catalan leaders claim supports independence.

Unilateral secession would be a brave gamble indeed given the referendum’s illegality and lack of international support. Independence would be a "hard sell", reckons Barclays, and there is no clarity on how and when Catalonia would carry out its threat to go it alone.

However, that’s not stopped Banco Sabadell from deciding on a move of headquarters to Alicante after a board meeting held on Thursday, according to Bloomberg News. CaixaBank, meanwhile, is said to favour the Balearic Islands. One small drug maker has already changed its legal domicile to Madrid from Barcelona. The share prices of all three rallied in sympathy on Thursday.

Bankers and investors say they’ve seen this movie before — in Canada. Over the past four decades, corporate offices have trickled out of the French-speaking province of Quebec, which accounts for 19% of Canada’s GDP — about the same as Catalonia. The separatist movement is only one of several forces at work, but it’s a key one.

Insurer Sun Life Financial pulled its headquarters out of Montreal in 1978, citing political instability and the introduction of new language laws. Between 1979 and 2012, Montreal lost nearly 30% of its head offices, according to one study. Even Bank of Montreal’s head office is in Toronto.

Montreal’s loss of head offices: 30%

For companies based in Catalonia, secession would throw them into legal and financial turmoil: what would happen to their access to Europe’s single market and regulatory entities? Both are vital for many non-financial corporations, such as pharmaceutical firms, which want to sell products region-wide with regulatory approval.

The threat to banks is especially potent. A messy divorce from Spain would see corporate clients likely move their cash outside the region. Consumers are unlikely to stand pat, either. Europe’s explicit backing of Spain means that lenders’ access to central-bank funding would theoretically be cut, too. Why take such risks with client money and shareholder confidence when the answer could be as simple as a change of address?

Even if independence doesn’t happen, there’s a chance of grass-roots boycott movements and consumers cutting back. That alone would be reason to think twice about investments and the health of future business. One banker warns this is the kind of risk that could make an entire region uninvestable. Strong words, perhaps, but the atmosphere is clearly tense, especially at a time when optimistic forecasters are expecting Spain to report its best economic performance this year since 2007.

As with Scotland’s referendum in 2014 and the Brexit vote in 2016, European investors and businesses know contingency plans are worth making. But even if Catalonia holds back from the nuclear option, there’s a lot at stake in the face of prolonged political unrest. Capital may choose to take flight regardless.

Laurent is a Bloomberg Gadfly columnist covering finance and markets. This column does not necessarily reflect the opinion of Bloomberg LP and/or its owners.

https://www.businesslive.co.za/bd/opinion/2017-10-06-gadfly-is-montreal-really-the-way-barcelona-wants-to-go/

 

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The main issue for Catalonia is not so much separation from Spain per se,  but exclusion from the European Union  and cut off access to ECB (European Central Bank) funding.  Without these threats,  the economic viability of Catalonia would not be questioned.  Indeed, contrary to the Quebec case,  Catalonia is richer than the national (Spanish) average.

The crux of the matter is therefore «Europe's explicit backing of Spain».  I understand the rationale for it, but I would suggest a review of the historical events which lead to the independence of Croatia, and most notably the shifts in the West's diplomatic postures * during and after the conflict opposing the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia**  and two of its constituent republics at the time, namely Slovenia and Croatia.  The parallels could be interesting, although I doubt that European politicians would dare evoking them, at a time when their attention is already heavily solicited elsewhere.  All they want is to have this fire extinguished asap.  

It may also be worth loking back at the Scottish Independence Referendum of 2014.  In a way, there is more commonality with the Catalonian case, as both the UK and Spain are members of the EU.  A key difference of course is that the Scottish referendum proceeded following an agreement between the Scottish Government and the UK Government. EU membership (in case of a yes victory) was of course a major issue, but there was none of the acrimony and violence that recently took place in Spain.  Neither do I recall any  categorical rebuttal from EU authorities.  

I wish the Bloomberg article had dwelt less on Montreal, and more on the rationale for Europe's backing of Spain.  It would have been more insightful.  But then, more difficult too.

* My personal interpretation: review the chronology of events, to form your own views.

** Nowadays: Serbia, not including Montenegro since 2008.

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I’ll try to be concise to explain what is a web of complexities:

Firstly, in contemporary Europe, the notion of democracy and freedom took a disturbing twist. It used to mean peace (following WWII), synergy and prosperity but now a bunch of self-absorbed Eurocrats with vested interests (of the likes of Barroso, etc.) besmirched the EU. The most ludicrous examples are stuffs such as Refugee quotas, common agricultural policies resulting in French farmers destroying excess supplies, wage disparity between member states, etc. To put it simply, a member has to STFU in case EU regulatory measures do not match its economic “make up” / imprint… Not to mention EU using threats to intimidate those refusing refugee quotas… so much for freedom and democracy.

Moreover, Spain’s predication arises following a decade or so of economic prosperity since their joining the EU — which makes sense given the fathoms from which their economy dwelt. However, corruption and cronyism crippled the country, I’d say beyond repair if you look at the unemployment figures Spain’s youth has been staggeringly struggling with. Turning their economy around would involve profound and drastic cultural changes but the issue is the fact that not all regions are actually plagued with these woes. Hence, my second, point: Catalonia and Basque Country are Spain’s major economic drivers and they owe this resilience solely based on their innate sense of entrepreneurship (Family-based businesses, mineral resources in Basque Country, access to sea, etc.). The State failed their people miserably and are in no position to decide for the Basques and Catalans. Should they declare independence, I have no doubt they’ll fare as good as Norway and Switzerland. Same can be said regarding Padania.

Finally, independence — and this should apply to Quebec — if declared painlessly should be quick, brief and definitive without lingering. Next, think how insular entities like Bermuda, Monaco, Switzerland, Lichtenstein, etc. make the most out of their isolating characteristics.

 

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Il y a 11 heures, andre md a dit :

Bermuda, Monaco, Switzerland, Lichtenstein = Paradis Fiscaux 

Exact.  Mais il y a aussi des petits pays comme le Danemark et l'Autriche qui s'en tirent très bien.  L'important est de faire partie d'un ensemble plus grand et de pouvoir bénéficier des économies d'échelle que cela permet.

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